Chemistry problems - what is wrong?

[jccaclimber]

Aerobic bacteria are going to speed up the processing of organics to nitrates, which I would think would *mildly* decrease efficacy of the skimmer if they are surface bound.  Since skimmers don't export nitrates you could have *slightly* more in the system.  You'll need anerobic area to decrease nitrates through bacteria.^That's my only guess.

 

[jenkinscrew]

I know right, I have had a MP block since I started my tank and nitrates have never been above 1 after my initial cycle!

 

[Mike R]

The porosity of the media, especially the 8x8x4 block,  provides considerable anaerobic area.  There's no "miracle cure" or quick fix for nitrates.  If you ask 10 hobbyists what works for them to keep nitrates down, you'll most likely get 10 different answers.  Each system is individually unique.  The OP has yet to find what works for his system.  IMO, marine pure might just do the trick. 

 

[jccaclimber]

I didn't realize the blocks were that big, that makes more sense.

 

[HM3105]

It may but the larger issue is where are the nitrates coming from? Adding something to remove something without understanding why it's there in the first place may not be the best course of action. Our little boxes are self contained, everything that goes in has to find a way out. So the MP blocks may help reduce nitrates but if they're running at 40ppm with 80 lbs of rock I'm not sure how effective adding a block would be. I'm not saying it won't help, I'm simply saying 40ppm seems like a lot of nitrate to have in a tank with 80 lbs of rock. There is something causing that much nitrate to exist in the system in the first. The OP would be better off trying to find the source of the nitrates and then developing an action plan to address that issue first. 

 

[ChristBearer2111]

I am open to ivestegating any ideas that you have as far as finding the cause of the nitrates. Only thing I can figure is there is still a lot of corline die off on my live rock. I have noticed some brown algae beginning to grow as well now.if it is caused by the die off I am guessing all I can do is wait it out? I used a powerhead to blow off the rock and then vacuumed the sand bed really good to try to get out anything that may be decaying. My rock continues to get less and less purple.

 

[jccaclimber]

Nitrates come from two places, things already in the tank, and things you put in to the tank.Things you put in to the tank:Water (if not clean)FoodSupplements (for those dosing nitrates).Things already in the tank:Organic matter in the sandOrganic matter in the rocksDead livestockIn this case I wouldn't blame it on the coraline, that's a low volume of organic matter.  All of the other organic matter in the rocks (remember, they are very porous), can be a surprisingly large amount.  Once the tank is happy and parameters are stable you'll grow more coraline than you know what  to do with.Normally  I start with siphoning the sand.  Since you've already done that, and blown off the rocks, it's just a matter of consuming or exporting whatever else is in the rocks until it clears up.  

 

[HM3105]

jccaclimber is correct, you might also read that article I linked above. I'd also like to see a picture of your sump and those bioballs in particular.In the short term, you might also try the other things mentioned (MP block, WC, Fuge, etc.) to reduce nitrates to an acceptable level and see if those stick. It is possible this is temporary due to the newness of the tank.  

 

[Crotalus]

I've had a bioball sump for many years.  I know they are out of favor today but that's not the source of high nitrates.

 

[HM3105]

Seems to go either way I guess, I'm not saying it's the bioballs but if they're being run in a wet/dry fashion its possible. I was just suggesting a process of elimination and in the end it may simply come down to the tank being new and nitrate reducing bacteria colonies being fully grown.

 

[ChristBearer2111]

View attachment 1966the water is right at the bottom of the balls

 

[HM3105]

1966[/ATTACH]the water is right at the bottom of the balls"]Personally, I'd get rid of the bioballs unless you wanted to run them submerged. However, prior to that, have you run a nitrate test using other than API? Are you still having issues with nitrates?

 

[ChristBearer2111]

I am not opposed to running them submerged (leaving enough space in case the pump goes out). I have actually been looking at building a refugium sump, one to increase my water volume but also I would like to run a more natural filter.  I have not not tested with a different brand but I did test my water before putting it in the aquarium and it was negative for nitrates so I am thinking since I can get different results with different water - if I am wrong I am open to finding another brand.

 

[jccaclimber]

I still think it's just seeping out of the rock/sand.  While bioballs aren't a particularly great source of aerobic surface area, that's all they are submerged or not submerged.  No magic in there, no nitrogen seeping out, and no sadly no anaerobic area creating nitrogen gas either.  Since your kit is reading nitrates in the tank, and not in the source water it seems the kit is working, at least directionally.  It's been a couple weeks since this thread started.  What are the nitrate levels now?  How fast are they going up (or are they)?Personally if they are still high I would test nitrates at 3 times.  Right before a large water change (say 25-50%), right after, then a third time 24-48 hours after.

 

[ChristBearer2111]

They are still in the 20-40 range (I would say 30ish) never really see them go up or down noticeably. I will need to get more salt to do another big water change (was not expecting to go through this much water) and see what it does. When I did the last big one (around the start of this thread) the water change did not drop them all that much (maybe down to 20 or so) and they were back up within 24hrs but have never gone higher than 40. Just seems to be stable at that 30ish range.

 

[ChristBearer2111]

I don't know what else to do. Nitrates are still high (30-40) just did another deep cleaning of the sand bed and rock and did a 30% water change and NO change in nitrate levels - I tested my salt water mix before adding it to the tank and nitrates tested at 0 then filled up the tank and let it all circulate and settle and tested the tank and nitrates were still in the 30-40 range. Don't know what else do to but drain the whole thing and start again - I am going broke on water changes.

 

[ChristBearer2111]

I have a canister filter off of my old FW set up that will handle up to 60-70 gal tank. Would it help anything to run it along with the sump - is there a medium that I could use in the canister that would help drop the nitrates (activated charcoal or something?) just spit balling - getting desperate.

 

[Steve]

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[jenkinscrew]

It sounds like your biological filtration is just not enough to me.  I would add some MarinePure Blocks in your sump. If you want to try the canister filter for awhile, like a media reactor, you could throw in a bunch of Seachem Matrix in bags.Have you taken water sample to fish store recently to have them verify as well?

 

[integra3g]

I would try another test kit.  Do you have a friend near you with a saltwater tank to borrow a kit?  I agree with Chris, I don't think you have enough filtration to keep your nitrates down.  My guess would be that your cycle killed off a lot of life in your rock and sand and it just continues to slowly decay in your system.  The amount of filtration you have can only maintain it around 40ppm and adding additional filtration might be able to help further reduce it.As for using a FW canister filter, be careful not to use one that might have had copper or other harsh meds run through it without properly cleaning it.You mention a lot of coraline die off... are you maintaining your calcium and alkalinity levels?  Are you running your display lights?  Maybe you can post up your full test results.Good luck and don't let all of this get you down.  There will be plenty of ups and downs with this hobby and I think it just adds to the FUN!