Wife said YES! In-wall tank prep

[CaravanShaka]

Finally got the wife to agree to an in-wall setup in our new house (Thanks Blide for the tank that showed her what a well designed in-wall setup can look like!).

I've got 4 months to plan this while the house is being built, but I might be able to talk the builder into setting up the wall during construction, so would like to nail-down at least the main details soon and get a budget set.

The tank will be in the wall between my study and dining room, which is approximately 12 feet wide. The dining room side will only show a picture frame like Bill's tank, while the study side will be built into cabinetry, also similar to Bill's tank

Here is what I want out of the tank, and would love some opinions/suggestions on how to do it:
- Large enough to house a few tangs comfortably
- at least a 4' x 2' viewing pane for the dining room side
- Lighting that won't cause the need for a chiller, but can grow SPS at least in the upper half of the tank
- 5" deep sand bed
- Sump that can house a small frag area, no more racks in my DT
- Automated heat, top-off, dosing, lighting, etc...

Here are my initial thoughts on the setup:
- Display tank - 60x28x28 - dual overflows in the back corners, leaving about 48x24 viewable on the dining room if I don't show most of the sand-bed
- Sump - 48x24x16
- Tank height at 44", leaving lots of room underneath for equipment, and allowing a good viewing height without bending over
- dual MP40's for flow
- Hybrid LED/T5 lighting

A concern I have is the overall height and width of the tank. Seeing as how I will only be able to access the tank from one side, is that going to be too wide to get to anything? with a 5" sand bed, that leaves it at 28x23, and I have about a 24" reach

Some things I still need to decide on:
- Refugium, Bio-pellets, or both?
- Carbon &/or GFO? I am going to plumb in 2 media reactors, just not sure if they will be needed yet
- filter socks or no filter socks? thinking I want to have the option to run them occasionally
- which controller to use. I have experience with the RKL, but would like a web enabled model this time
- internal or external pump at the sump
- how to make water changes easier than using 5gl jugs (challenge is the whole first floor will be wood floors)
- how best to integrate the tank into a cabinetry setup in the study. I want to to have upper and lower cabinets like a kitchen, and have the tank centered on the wall with counter space on either side of it. The upper cabinets over the tank need to house the lighting and be ventilated, and the bottom cabinetry needs to house the sump under the tank, and at least an ATO container to the side.

Thanks for any input guys!

~Joe

 

[ctaylor81]

What about making the base of the stand about 4" lower than the actual viewing panel so you have only about 1" of sand to be seen? You will still have your DSB, but minimal in the line of sight.

 

[ReefNut2010]

Always thought that was a great idea. A lip big enough to cover all but 1-2" of the sand. Why not just go with a marineland 300? Good tanks and might be cheaper than custom size.

 

[hooterhead]

Have the builder install a floor drain if it isn't too late. Then you can just mark a line on the aquarium to drain down to for water changes. And it will protect your floor against the worst case scenario (flood).

 

[CaravanShaka]

@ctaylor81 wrote:

Definitely a great idea, and it is already in the plan for sure on the dining room side, and will try and do the same on the study side with additional trim on the cabinets.

That is the reason for the 28" height with 24" of viewing, to cover a good portion of the DSB.

@ReefNut2010 wrote:

I am probably doing starphire on the 2 viewing panes, and want to do the overflows opposite of what most tanks do (longest side of the overflow on the short side of the tank), so I am going to need to go custom either way.

@hooterhead wrote:

GREAT idea! We have a meeting with the builder on Monday before they start prepping the lot for foundation, so it is not too late. But I'll need to have a lot of the details ironed out before that meeting if I am to get that done.

 

[mukymuk]

The most critical issues will have to do with the house and not the tank. Here's a few, hopefully some will be useful to you:

Consider having the builder oversize the heatload for your study by 2X. Heat and humidity will be an issue in a typical (12x10ish) study. Most builders will undersize the unit. +1 ton, IMO. Have him pull at least one additional circuit for the tank alone. Maybe even two.

I'm not a fan of dsb's in the display because if you let maintenance/biodiversity slip and it gets mucky, you can have some serious problems that are hard to fix without a tear-down. I do like dsb's in the aux tank very much though. Just a thought.

I don't think the dimensions are bad--you'll probably need a stool to really get into it, but seems workable. The bigger issue is going to be how your hood is designed and where the lights are, etc.

Consider venting the sump in some way--even if passively into the room. You'll probably need to actively push air through the sump if you want your frag rack down there (lights). Consider venting the hood into the attic (assuming 1 story) and put a small blower in to suck air from the hood.

Consider solar tubes (1 story?). Depending on how they are positioned on the roof you might be able to get a descent amount of natural lighting. The benefit of real sunlight is hard to over emphasize. Generally this means they need to have a clear view to the south.

Add a drain of some kind so you can get rid of water easily. A sink is really handy, but it's hard to do and still make it look like a study. Maybe you should start calling it a "fish room" now [smilie=wink.gif]

Make sure you can get the tank and sump in and out without having to tear stuff out. Don't physically join stand/hood to the structure of the house if you can avoid it. Trim work/cabinetry is fine.

Seal the tank air spaces away from the house materials. Chemical sealants or plastic sheet. The humidity will cause trouble for you if you don't.

Be mindful of salt creep. Make sure there are several inches of distance between the water and any material other than plastic or glass, even if it protected by a sealant.

While you don't want a chiller, plan for one just in case. Or better yet a portable/window unit that can be used as a dehumidifier (assuming your study isn't normally open to the rest of your house).

Give some thought to spill containment. When the water comes out (and it will), where is it going to go? You don't wan't it stagnating in places you can't possibly reach (inside walls, for example). Consider tile flooring.

 

[CaravanShaka]

@mukymuk wrote:

Thanks for the input!

The house will be 2 stories, so a few of those suggestions are out.

I have a single 20 amp circuit feeding only the tank, so power should not be an issue.

I will be discussing a floor drain with the builder on Monday, that is definitely a good idea.

I was planning on using Kilz on any wood around the tank that wasn't visible, but an added layer of protection with plastic sheeting is a great idea.

My plan right now with the lighting is having an aluminum tube rack on hangers inside of the cabinet. the hangers will go up to the top panel of the cabinets, and there will be fans build into that panel either exhausting air out, our pushing air down onto the lights & tank. It will be built so I can easily raise and lower the lights to any height within the 36" tall cabinet.

Venting for the sump area will be similar, and fans will definitely be needed for the LED's.

 

[C4rN4gE]

Depending on your house, since you are building, circuits are cheaper now rather than later. You are better off having two 20 amp circuits run, then plugging half of everything in one circuit, so if one ever trips, the other stays running. Also, and I plan to do this with my next new house, see about a natural gas generator. About $5k, but can power your whole house at that price. And since its natural gas, if electricity goes out, it kicks on, you dont have to worry, and you dont have to deal with filling up a gas can every 12 hours.

I also recommend 3lbs polypropylene spray-in insulation for the whole house, as its the best insulator out there.

And, I wouldnt worry about the dining room side - you can always cut that viewing window whenever to whatever you want. So personally, if the wall is 12 feet wide, I would get an 11.9' tank, that was as deep as I could get it. No sharks. Just pretty fishes and coral. But thats me. And yeah, just call it a fish room now, and do what Marc did with his: metal stand, with removable standing shelf, huge poly tank for water changes, etc.

Good luck - you're doing what most of us want to do!

 

[ss95003]

good news Joe...If you can try to go wider I would. I always wish my tank was atleast 3 foot wide. I think wide lets you do a lot more with aquascaping.

You are welcome to swing by my house and take a look at my in wall if you want some idea's.

 

[kar2oons]

Sounds like the makings of a sweet tank! Good Luck Joe!

 

[CaravanShaka]

@C4rN4gE wrote:

Can't go too far, still have restrictions from the wife. I'll run battery backup for the MP40's, but that is about all I will NEED to run. The longest I have been out of power in the last 5 yrs has been about 3 hrs. As far as tank size goes, my wife said "100 gallons or less", so I can't get it that big and still get away with it. 200 gallons, she may not realize the difference until someone mentions it in front of her, and by then it will be too late


@ss95003 wrote:

I agree, I would love a 36" wide tank, but each inch of this tank encroaches on the usability of the study. It won't be a dedicated fish room, so 28 is about the max I can do and still get my office furniture in there without it being cramped or blocking tank access. I will take you up on that offer to see your setup, you home about 5:30 today?


@kar2oons wrote:

Thanks, I'll need the luck along with a lot of planning to make it happen!

 

[mukymuk]

Is that tank volume or water volume? [smilie=wink.gif]

 

[CaravanShaka]

@mukymuk wrote:

Is that tank volume or water volume? [smilie=wink.gif]"]

It's a "guideline" that I am sort of using...or maybe doubling!

been modeling my setup in google sketchup and making some progress, let me know what you think. Obviously the cabinets aren't on there yet, but it has the tank, sump, and the stand structure, and shows how it will sit in the room and inside the wall meeting the dining room.

 

[Guest]

Since your tank is gonna be 100 gallons I would go with external overflow so you can get more room inside the tank.


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[ss95003]

Joe sorry I missed that message from last week. I will be around all weekend if you want to stop by.
I agree an external overflow would save some room. Maybe 1 on each side of the tank since it looks like it willl be viewable from both sides of the tank.

 

[CaravanShaka]

Well, tank is roughly 200 gallons, viewing pane on dining side is 48" x 24", and 60" x 24" on the study side. Also, i want to be able to view the sides of the tank and conceal my plumbing from the view in the study. So for those reasons i prefer the internal overflows.

No problem on last week, I am in no hurry. I am actually pretty busy from now until mid-march prepping to move to the apartment for a few months.


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[CaravanShaka]

updated pic with cabinets...thoughts?

 

[Heath]

That will look nice, but the upper side cabinetry may make it difficult to do deep cleanings to the back and sides of the tank.

 

[blide]

Looks like it's going to be a fun project!

When implementing a tank in the wall there are a lot of things to consider and I definetly learned some lessons along the way. One thing you need to determine is how much sqft you have in the back room for the whole tank setup (tank + cabinets) and then figure out what dimensions will work on the front side (viewing panel). Once you determine the overall look you want then you can get a tank that fits the design. My setup was designed around the asthetics and not how big of a tank I wanted because when you install something this big it has to work with the overall design of the house and not just be a big tank in the room.

If you want to stop by sometime soon and asks questions let me know.

 

[CaravanShaka]

Thanks for the offer, Bill. I would love to drop by and talk about the process, it helps minimize mistakes and rework to sit down with someone that has been through it before. I leave this friday for a week, then will be moving into my apt when i get back, so maybe after all of that calms down.

Regarding tank maintenance, i agree that is something that i really need to look at when figuring the dimensions of this tank. I am really considering going from 60x28x28 down to 60x24x24 to make that front side easier to reach from the dining room. That means no DSB in the display, but it can still be in the sump.

I am also going to design the upper cabinets in a way that i can just open the cabinets, or i can pull the whole front face off for complete access. Need to figure out that design though.


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