Plan to eradicate ich

segooey

Premium Member
I will be combining two current 75 gallon mixed reefs in to one 180 gallon mixed reef in a few months. Both systems have had ich outbreaks in the past, and while there have been no visible symptoms in 6+ months, I know it is still there and stressing my fish. Out of fairness to the animals, I want to do everything possible to eliminate this issue and follow strict quarantine procedures going forward.My plan is to:Step 1 - Drain system 1 and move it out of the way. Place the new 180 gallon system where system 1 was located.Step 2 - Move all sand, rocks, corals, and invertebrates from both current systems in to the new 180 gallon system.Step 3 - Drain system 2 and move it in to the new fish room (closet under the stairs). Move all fish from both systems in to this tank.Step 4 - The new 180 gallon system will remain fallow (no fish) for at least 90 days. The 75 gallon tank with all the fish will go through a hyposalinity treatment, holding the low salinity for at least 60 days.Step 5 - Introduce fish to the 180 gallon system in typical order; i.e. firefish first, tang last.The fish in system 1 are 1 small/medium ocellaris, 1 red firefish, 1 purple firefish, 1 small/medium green chromis, 1 small bi-color chromis, 1 six line wrasse, 1 small/medium yellow tang, 1 orange spot goby. System 2 only has 1 large 10" engineer goby and 2 large green chromis.Has anyone ever done something like this or have any insight or recommendations? My greatest concern is if the entire process is going to be way too stressful on the fish and if I'd be better off just moving everyone in to the new system as is - ich and all.Thanks for taking the time to read all this.
 
I've never done this. ?However, I'm interested to see how it goes if you do it. ?I would think it would be best to get rid of ich before you go to the new tank. ?But hopefully someone with more knowledge on ich can chime in.?
 
Your position on ich really drives this decision on the process to follow. We have apposing opinions and tests where some believe many species of fish have ich and it is only visible when stressed and the treatment only removes the visible signs. Others believe you can cure it or remove it. ?Nothing wrong with playing it safe and treating all of your fish. But treating?may stress some and you may have some loss.?I moved everything from my 180 into tubs and then moved them ?into the new 215 system in the same day.?I thought that would reduce the stress the most, same water, same everything except new sand.
 
Posted by: segooey?The 75 gallon tank with all the fish will go through a hyposalinity treatment said:
As Steve said we all have opinions, IMO TTM or copper ?is easier than hyposalinity. ?Although its a closed door closet, make sure it's still at least 10' away to ensure no aerosol transmission."They" say 76?days fallow is enough, and if i remember correctly 60 days gives you 99.9%.?
Posted by Stete: Your position on ich really drives this decision on the process to follow.? said:
On that note, your going to go through a lot of work and 3 months of time. "They" also say "If no new ich?strand is introduced into an infected aquarium, the ich cycle through multiple generations until about 10 to 11 months when the ich has ?worn itself out?. A tank can be free of an ich?infestation if it is never exposed to new ich?parasites for over 11 months." depending on the current condition of the fish (will they live through it), I would also consider riding it out and NO new "wet introductions" for a year.???
 
Posted by: dnahas?<br class="wpforo-post-quote-author" />On that note said:
I've never read anything regarding "cycling out", but I will look for more about it. I do plan on quarantining a future fish and using an acclimation box, so perhaps what you've suggested along with my future best practices will be sufficient. Thanks for the info!
 
For me, all new fish go through TTM with?Prazipro on the tail 24hr of tank #2 & 4. Then a few weeks in QT. ?All plants(macro algae), inverts(snails & crabs), and corals I cant get off the base get 72 days in a separate QT. ?http://www.reef2reef.com/forums/fish-disease-treatment-and-diagnosis.771/ ?The weak part of my plan, I cut SPS frags off the base and bayer dip them. They should stay in QT and go through multiple dips, but mine dont.?I have been lucky, probably because I dont add that often. I?am?still playing a game of roulette.??Stay on top of timing. 72 days is a long time to wait [after ]you realized most of your astraea's have ended up on their back and you need more CUC. Or you bought one more coral (brain, frogspawn, etc) in the middle of the 72 day QT currently in progress.
 
I just completed a round of Coppersafe for three of my surviving fish following an Ich outbreak plus at least one other pathogen I was not able to identify. I did API general cure (contains metronidazole and praziquantel) to deworm,?plus two acriflavine baths?because?the clowns looked like they?had?brookklynella (one died before I could treat it).?They look great now while they wait out the DT's fallow period.Thought I could get away with not quarantining my initial fish and invertebrates in a recent new build. I was wrong!!! This motivated me to do a lot of research over the past month to understand current guidance.?Admittedly, some is anecdotal but much is based on a broad spectrum of experience.?I am by no means an expert but my awareness has dramatically increased.Latest guidance for a fallow period to eradicate Ich is 76 days. The life cycle for all other common fish pathogens are less than this. For me, anything wet, other than fish, will go into a quarantine tank for 76 days--minimum. This includes coral frags, CUC, rocks, etc. The fish will be prophylactically treated in a separate process, either TTM or copper.?Just started TTM for three new small fish in a pair of 10 gallon tanks. This will also include Prazi at the onset of transfers 2 and 4 (days 4 and 12). I then plan to observe them for at least 30 days in a 20 gallon HT and treat for any symptoms that may manifest. And yes...all these tanks have to be at least 10 ft from one another.Although a lot of folks still prefer hypo salinity, especially for larger fish and large numbers of fish at one time, it has lately been suggested unreliable. Studies have shown certain strains of Ich can propagate in salinity levels as low as 7 to 10 g/L.?It is also hard on the fish if you go longer than 30 days. Some do not fair well at all. It can damage their kidneys.When choosing a treatment method a concern for stressing the fish (within reason) should not be a driver. While stress can lower their immune system and increase their susceptibility do disease, it's the disease that kills--not stress.My goal is to have an Ich free tank. While some fish can build a resistance, I think it is inhumane to have them constantly subject to gill infections at a minimum. Even though you may not see it--they are suffering. And needless too. Ich can be beaten.The perfect time to do it is when setting up a new tank. All the best!
 
I have a few things that I assume have worked great for me on a system that has had up to 12 tangs.<ol>[*]I keep 10% of total water volume in miracle mud?[*]I always add garlic drops to my frozen food mix and allow to soak on it for at least 30 min.</ol>I have never had ick and I have successfully recovered fish that look stressed and with visible ickI wouldn't go as far as nuking a tank to get read of it; I agree with Steve on that most fish, inverts have it and is not visible unless stressed but I'm not a marine biologist...?
 
My assumptions after battling with it is the same as Jose and Steve. ?I had not seen a fish with ich in my tank for 9 months until I added a tang that I bought from this forum. ?He was stressed by the move and got it, but it cleared up after a few days. ?My fish are happy and look healthy, but if drama was to happen it would probably come back visibly.
 
Posted by: Smo? said:
My goal is to have an Ich free tank. While some fish can build a resistance said:
I feel the same way that the animals are suffering and that they don't have to be. I'm wary of the tank transfer method, however. It seems like a ton of work and incredibly stressful on the fish. Is chelated copper effective for my situation or would I have to use ionic copper?
 
I just completed my first transfer yesterday while executing TTM for a small ocellaris clown, purple firefish and royal gramma. The clown appears unphased by it. He is just happy to be alive. The firefish hides under the PVC fittings in the tank but is eating well. The gramma is being a gramma--cowering in a corner or hiding in a PVC fitting. I have seen it eat at least once since beginning last Saturday. So depending on the fish it can be stressful, but likely not much more than being in any QT/HT setup. I use colanders to move them--no nets to avoid injuries. It happens pretty quick and they go right back into a tank that looks the same as the one they came out of.I am using two 10-gallon setups. The transfer process was about an hour worth of work, including matching temperatures and salinity in the new tank and disinfecting the first tank, heater, cover, PVC fittings?and thermometer. You need two of everything. I am disposing of each airstone also used because it is too hard to dry them out within the TTM cycle time. Everything needs to be bone dry for at least 24 hours prior to reuse on the next transfer. I am using a small fan to help with that.The fish came from the LFS in water having a SG of 1.017. I have bumped this up to 1.019 to keep more oxygen dissolved and also to use less salt since the total amount of water used will be 50 gallons. Actually, 60 gallons since the final transfer will be into a 20 gallon HT for 30 days of follow-on observation. That tank will begin sterile as well but will have a HOB and internal air driven?sponge filters seeded with BioSpira the night prior.For a couple of small fish TTM is relatively easy. It is also about as close to 100% effective since you out run the Ich tomonts in their life cycle. It will not work for velvet, however, which sometimes can be confused for Ich. I am pretty convinced I had Ich because of the classic spots (I could count) on my sailfin tang. I may also have had velvet in the DT too, because of the rapid demise of several of the fish, which drove me to QT and a fallow period.For larger fish, copper or prescription chloroquine diphosphate (CP), if you have access, may be a better option. As?mentioned above, I used CopperSafe, a chelated copper because it was my first Cu treatment and the current trend is to recommend it as it appears to be a little more forgiving and easier on the fish. However, Cupramine is still very popular and likely about the same effectiveness. CopperSafe?needs to be maintained at a therapeutic level of 1.5 - 2.0 ppm and you need an API Cu test kit to measure it. Despite the directions that say to add it all within 48 hours, I ramped it up slowly over 5 days because I was concerned about my melanurus wrasse. He came thru it just fine. I also had a small glass dish with sand so he could sleep in it every night.When using Cu, current guidance is to maintain it at a therapeutic level for 30 days. This means testing very day and replacing it in the new water used for changes. It should eradicate Ich and is good for velvet too. It is nearly as effective as TTM for Ich but has the potential for not being as effective if you are unfortunate to have a strain of Ich that lasts greater than 30 days in the tomont stage, albeit--pretty rare. Hence, the additional 30 days of observation following Cu treatment.So going forward when the DT is now presumably disease free, for all future fish additions...TTM takes only 6 weeks whereas prophylactic Cu treatment requires 8 weeks.??So there is some advantage there with respect to time and tank maintenance. And if you are convinced your DT is disease free, you can use its water during water changes to fill the TTM tanks. Just don't syphon from the bottom.
 
Wow, good for you but too much work for me! ?My wife would never allow me that amount of time! ?I can't imagine going through all of that and having no way of knowing it will even provide an ich free tank. ?That is the real problem here, is that it is hard to know about something we can't see. ?Maybe someday, but the info on this seems to changes weekly. ?Keep us posted how this all works for you going forward, so maybe we can all learn something!
 
Posted by: integra3g?Wow said:
Well, not only am I confident I will have an Ich free tank but a disease free tank as well going forward--although nothing is for certain. But I only have 6 fish in play with a 65 gallon DT (currently). TTM is relatively simple compared to spending Christmas eve removing all my rock-work to catch surviving fish for treatment and quarantine.If you would like to see what you may be up against?check this thread. Very interesting read.<u></u>http://www.reef2reef.com/threads/quarantine-40-50-fish-from-existing-500-gallon-reef.276494/?
 
Top