LPS tissue recession and shy zoas - Parameters are great

D

dward0487

So, I have noticed that my wall hammer coral has a decent amount of tissue recession around its edges all of a sudden, and I just noticed that my candycanes are showing tissue death, as well. Both these corals have not been moved since putting them in the tank quite some time ago... I've also noticed that most of my zoas seem to stay in a "half-open" state, where you can see the centers, but their skirts are tucked in. My 30g tank is getting plenty of flow from the MP10 that I have mounted to one of the sides. I have 2 36" ReefBrite XHO strips over the tank: one blue and one white. The white strip has been on at 20% intensity, while the blue is on at full intensity. I tested all of my water parameters, and they were fine:

Salinity: 1.026 ppt
Temp: 80 degrees
Ammonia: 0 ppm
Nitrite: 0 ppm
Nitrate: 0 ppm
Phosphate: 0 ppm
Alkalinity: 10 dKH
Calcium: 430 ppm
Magnesium: 1450 ppm

I target feed most of the corals when I feed my fish. I also put some AquaVitro Fuel in the tank every few days. Is there something that I'm not testing that I should be testing? I just can't explain why these corals seem to be on the decline...
 
I've decided to never go full LEDs again. It could be to much light. See what your polyp extension is like even if they are slightly closed. Also I stopped using fuel as well. I still use salinity salt but I found a better amino+ product to use. If all perams are good, I would lean toward lighting. How long have you had those lights and how long has it been since you changed the amount of power to them.


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In answer to your questions:

- I run a carbon/GFO reactor all the time as it is, so I don't think that running carbon is the solution.
- I have the single MP10 running at around 80% in Reefcrest mode. It's on the right side of the tank, blowing across the length of the tank. Before I got the MP10, I had 2 600 gph Koralias running on the back wall.
- Even though the polyps are only half open, they are fairly extended. They are not laying flat against the mat, if that's what you mean. The lights have been on my tank basically since I got it (3 or 4 months). I changed the intensity to 100% blue and 20% white around a month ago. I did some PAR testing back then, but I've always been a little unsure about my lighting. It may still be too much light, but I'd need to buy another dimmer for the blue if that was the case. My setosa is growing like a weed, so light may be the issue...

I'm leaning toward either light or flow, but I really don't know how to go about testing to see whether I need to move up or down. Some of the corals look fine, and some don't. The main ones that concern me are the majority of my zoas, which never seem to want to fully open up, and a few of the LPs that look rather weak. I've probably got about 25 corals (almost all frags), but my parameters never seem to change (alkalinity is stable, as are calcium and magnesium). I do an 8-gallon water change every 2 weeks, and that seems to keep everything going strong. Should I be concerned that my corals don't seem to be taking anything out of the water very quickly?
 
Since you are running GFO and your nitrate/phosphate are 0 you might try stopping the GFO for a month. For the longest time I could keep LPS, and even SPS but the growth wasn't great. I couldn't keep mushrooms or zoas which took 3 months to decline, but my xenia grew like a weed. NO3 was always 0, phosphate was 0 as well. Coral needs to feed too. I started feeding the nems 3x weekly instead of once and started feeding mysis to the other corals 3x weekly. I stopped changing the water as often and suddenly everything looked great and was growing. I added two fish (and food for them) and the tank looked better yet.

Once everything was healthy the next thing I tried was dosing NO3 directly while cutting the food back a bit. Even putting in 10-15 PPM of NO3 a week (small part daily) it was still reading <1 and everything was happy.

Heavily fed tanks with little macro, a high fish load, and few softies can run a steep nitrate surplus. Tanks with more macro, a lighter fish load, and some softies can really suck up the nutrients. I ran phyto for a little while and suspect the only reason it worked was that it was rotting and adding nutrients to the tank. I saw a difference if I stopped dosing the phyto, but not if I replaced it with NO3 dosing which tells me it was more the nutrients than the actual phyto.
 
@jccaclimber wrote:
Since you are running GFO and your nitrate/phosphate are 0 you might try stopping the GFO for a month. For the longest time I could keep LPS said:
+1

No phos is just as bad as too much phos.
Click to expand...
 
I would bet money on your lighting. I ran a halide over a tank for three years and had rock solid lps, sps, and softies. Swapped to a Kessel 360a about 6 months ago and have had problems ever since. The crazy thing is the corals were so healthy that they hung on and didn't show noticeable signs of deterioration for around four months. Now it is obvious to me that the corals have tried really hard to adjust but are finally letting go. Not all however. Some LPS have thrived like my bubble coral and cynarina however they have the largest polyp and also have the best ability to change their shape to adapt. My beautiful orange wall hammer is finally showing signs of STN and I feel like after two solid months of spectrum adjustment I am unable to get the light spectrum and intensity where they need to be. Just not enough control with only two spectrum of LED's... I want to change to a Hydra 26 where I feel I can fine tune somewhat better. I hope this helps. I would encourage you to borrow a four bulb t5ho fixture from a buddy and see what happens for a few months. Here is a quick list of corals that have responded poorly to the kessel: Acan Lord, Acan Bowerbanki, Acan Hille, Green Digi, Ponope B. Nest, Orange Wall Hammer, Candy Canes, Fungia, Scolymia, Dragon soul favia. Here is a list of corals that seem to adapt or excel: Green Bubble Coral, Pink Cynarina, Ultimate chaos Palys, Acan Echinata Orange crush, Dragon's breath Algae, Rainbow Lobo. Truly heartbreaking to slowly watch my corals melt but I was so sure that I could figure out the color and intensity (controlled through APEX)...
 
LEDs are a break through for sure but the variables are too many. I've kept 12 tanks, I was in it for the coral from the start so I waste very little money on fish. Just enough to have a good bio system going. It would hurt my head to think of all the different lighting types I've tried. Not trying to go on here but these are my general rule of thumbs on lighting.

If its a short tank, I'd say up to 2 feet, I use T5s and LED supplement.

If its above 2 feet I use MH with t5 or t12 supplements.

I've never had good luck with LEDs only. Maybe if you found someone with a killer LED only tank you could get the same future an calibrate it the same with a good par meter. But I just feel like what I use is more forgiving.



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His tank is a standard 40b, I been thinking about this too and leaning towards lighting, I had a mp10 on a 24th tank running 75% and all my corals did fine but was running a chappy Chinese led unit. Have since switched to metal halide and won't go back unless I get a radion

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I ran my breeder with 2 T5 bulbs and 4 panorama 50/50s. If I had the money for it I would have run 4 T5 bulbs and 2 all blue panoramas. I had an MP10 and return pump for flow and the mp ran 80% power blasting right onto my caps. Everything was happy in that tank. I'm convinced that its your lighting. Go buy a 4 bulb t5 fixture and some stunner strips or a 6 bulb T5 with antics.


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Are you using Phosgard? I just read that it is aluminum based, and that aluminum can cause problems for some LPS corals.
 
No, I'm not running Phosgard. I'll try switching to carbon-only in my reactors and see what happens before I start fiddling with the lights for the millionth time.
 
Your water could be to clean try feeding more. Most corals like a l8ttle nitrates and trace amount of phosphates


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I stopped draining my mysis before feeding the tank each night and switch it up from time to time with some Rod's Food, but still no change...

I'm starting to wonder if I should get a second dimmer and drop my blue intensity to 50% and my white to 10%. I'd have the same color balance with half the intensity. I may just have too much light on these things...
 
I'm out numbered but I don't think it is lighting related. I have ran only LED's on multiple tanks over the past 5 years (DIY, Ecoexotic, Steves LED's, Kessils). Currently running kessils and all the Acans, torches, frogspawns, Zoas, and the few SPS I have (pink lemonade acro, Oregon tort, montis, setosa) all doing great. Running at 90% power at peak and 30% whites. In my opinion it has got to do something with water chemistry.


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