Lighting... where to start

[Dewana]

Good Morning all! I am brand new to saltwater and am excited to join the group and attend some events. Seems I have ALOT to learn. My husband and I have alot of experience with fresh water tanks and saltwater pools, but this is a first. So I have the tank all picked out and set up and am now stuck on which lighting to get. I would like to invest in a quality system that will allow us to grow with the corals we choose as we learn, but WOW so many to choose from! We would like an automated system because we are still learning that has the sunrise/sunset/lunar option. It's a 100g canopy tank. so it has to be on the thinner side, 21 inches deep, 20 inches depth, 48 inches long. Any suggestions???

 

[ss95003]

Well this and which skimmer do I buy are the most debated topics in the Saltwater world. If you ask 10 people what you think you should do you will get 4-5 different answers most likely. I would say your options are limited if you want to contain them inside a shallow canopy. Also IMO sunrise/sunset/lunar are nice options not needed, but easily obtained with some lighting and harder with others.
It also matters what you would like to or plan on keeping, if this is a fish only system and cheap lights will work but lets assume Full reef.
I would say your main lighting options are:

1. LEDS
2. MH
3.T5

I would recommend either ditching the canopy and get MH or put holes in the top of the canopy for the MH to sit on top. You could supplement the MH lighting with either T5 or VHO atentic lighting(I like VHO atentic). You would need two MH pendants to cover 48", also with supplement lighting you can use that for the Sunrise/sunset. Lastly if you use Lumen Bright pendants they need to sit 12” over the water but they make huge par, and transfer little heat.
You are going to get about 10 people tell you how great LEDs are how they don't add heat and how they pay for themselves in electric and cooling savings.
I think LEDs still have a long way to go in the reefing world but they are making progress and probably are the lights of the future.
I can also tell you I went from running 3 250w MH to 1 250w MH and I can't tell the difference in my electric bill. My heater has a higher watt pull then 1 250W MH. also people will say that you have to spend $300 a year on MH bulbs, one not sure where they are buying bulbs, and two when I change my MH bulb its as good as new, LED supposedly are only good for so many hours, then what happens to your $1000 fixture?
The good thing about LEDS is they will fit inside your shallow canopy with no modifications, also any fixture worth it weight is dimmable, so you can use this for your sunset and sunrise. Also LED will make any LPS look like a million dollars. My suggestions to read a lot determine a budget then go from there.

 

[Airstreamin]

I ran the same debate when I was setting up my tank. For me it came down to costs, not just initial, but long term costs.

Due to having young kids in the house I have to have a hood on my tank, as such heat transfer was a primary concern of mine. Due to this I opted to not go MH as the additional cost and space loss to having to run a chiller and additional cooling fans was not an option I wanted to pursue.

So that left LEDs and T5s for me. I didn't like the added costs of having to replace several bulbs every 6 months or so added on top of the unit and I didn't like the lack of "shimmer" you get from T5s so I went LEDs. Add that I have a pentagon corner tank which further compounded the complications of not being able to mount an "off the shelf" T5 unit into my hood.

With my 3 LED units (2x 36" and 1x 24") I have absolutely no heat issues in my closed hood, I don't have to run any fans or cooling units on my tank and I won't need to change any bulbs for the life of the units. Coupled with the APEX unit, I have complete customization of the 3 LED units (sunrise, sunset, moonlight, etc).

I initially was going to go with with AI units but then was introduced into the Buildmyled units, the full custom color spectrum, control-ability and build quality has definitely made me a strong supporter of their product. Nick (one of the owners) was amazing with his feedback, input and guidance in ensuring I got the right balance of lighting needs for the coral in my tank coupled with the visual look I was going for.

You can read up on my units in by build thread linked in my signature.

 

[Eckolancer]

I have to agree LEDs are the way to go. I have been using them for about 3 years now will not ever go back. I do get a lot of growth out of everything from SPS, LPS, softies, zoas, ect... If you look at my led build logs that may give you some ideas. I like the heat sinks from Rapid but stevesleds has a nice skinny one but the fan tends to go out and you should have one on backup just incase it does go out. The rapids I never use a fan and have no heat issues.

 

[Dewana]

Well skimmers are my husbands thing along with anything else 'under' the tank, so I'll leave that to him! LOL I'm doing everything above that. So after reaching everything you guys say and several other resources, LED really is my only option. I don't want to drill into my beautiful canopy and I perfer not to have a bunch of fans running. (My canopy is open in the back). So I looked at the Sols vs. Vega, and I think I'm going to go with the color Vega's and the apex. I know it's a bit more, but the Vega's have more Watt per LED and a wider spread on their coverage. Since I have a long tank, I think that will be important. Thanks for your help! Now on to rock... cured fiji or the man made stuff??

 

[ss95003]

I would not do man made stuff. If I were you I'd look at Marco rock or rock from bulk reef supply. Both are dry previously reef rock. You get more for your money dry and it will eventually be just like LR.

 

[Airstreamin]

@Dewana wrote:

Personally, look at the Buildmyled lights. I was going to go with the AI units as well, but you'll get a lot better color spectrum and coverage from the build my leds over the AI units.

Plus, wattage doesn't mean everything, by a long shot, focal lenses, optic degrees, water depth, etc has just as much of an impact. It's about PAR levels, not wattage levels, and with only a 21 inch deep tank most any lighting will be more than sufficient to grow SPS.

With my buildmyled units, I not only got a lot better color spectrum and light coverage, but it cost me less for 3 buildmyled units over what it would have cost to get just 2 AI units. The AI units get a lot of praise, but they're really not "that" special. Since you are already planning on getting the APEX unit, you can do everything with the buildmyled (and most other controllable LED fixtures for that matter) that you can do with the AI units.

Plus, especially with the Vega, from what I've seen on tanks that run them and heard from people who have run them for a while is that based on the optics you use, they are very prone to the "disco ball" effect in the tank.

 

[Dewana]

Hmmm.... all good points.... Let me dig a little deeper into that before I hit that purchase button. I'm going to look a little closer at yours as well. Off to research!

 

[Charlie]

I personally would go to a LFS that has display tanks and ask many questions on their setups. We have a tank tour at the end of the month as well, not sure where you are located. But the best research is to see setup successful tanks, ask questions and suit the build to your preference.

 

[Airstreamin]

@Dewana wrote:

No problem, I went through the same steps myself so figured I'd pass on the results of my findings. Of course, you're completely free to make your own choices, just giving the insight into why I went the route I did.

Also, what part of the metroplex are you in? If you're anywhere near the north side (I live in Providence Village by Aubrey) you're more than welcome to come see them on my tank before you make a decision.

Dallas North Aquarium also has a display tank with the AI (I think they're the AI Sol Blues IIRC) and one with the Radions as well if you can swing by there and check them out.

For your tank (48" long), you're looking at 2, maybe 3 AI units (depending on whether you mount them parallel to the tank or not) which will run you $1,000 for the AI Vega units where you could get the following buildmyled units:

1x 48" 14000K Custom Reef Spectrum
1x 48" Super Actinic Reef Spectrum
With shipping: $608.37

You probably wouldn't even need a 2nd 14k unit as shallow as your tank is, but if you wanted to, that'd only bring the price up to $903.89. I spoke with Nick quite a bit prior to ordering and even at Next Wave after I had bought my units, Nick (the owner) came from the LED industry so is very knowledgeable to the led products, their durability and life cycles of LED lighting. When it comes down to it, there's only really 3 or so large scale manufacturers of the actual LEDs used in most reef lighting fixtures, it comes down to the fixtures themselves and the spectrum of LEDs used.

There's also a number of other LED units out there for far less than the AI units that have a wider spectrum but I can only directly speak to the units I have direct experience with.

Other alternatives that I've heard good things about:
Radions - Comparative to AI's in cost
Reef Breeders - Another "budget" alternative (2x for your tank will run you apx $650 for their controllable ones, however I don't think these sync to the APEX for control but have a built in control unit)
Rapid LED - More of a DIY route
Apollo SolarBlast UV 5000 + (2x will run about $800, these are "Apex Ready" certified, along with the Buildmyled units)

Here's a useful link for you as well:
http://www.neptunesystems.com/apex-ready/

 

[Dewana]

Ok.. I went to Buildmyled and got their input. They said I could get away with two starting off and always add a third one if I went with more light intense corals. This is half of the Vegas...so what am I missing? LOL Usually if something sounds to good to be true, it is.
I'm in North Dallas around Lake Lewisville. I was at DNA this weekend and I didn't even look to be honest! LOL We were shopping for 'under' the tank so my husband did most of the talking then. Maybe I will swing buy there and check it out.

 

[Airstreamin]

@Dewana wrote:

You're not far from me at all then, if you're up for the drive to the north side of Lake Lewisville just send me a PM and you can see the fixtures first hand and how I have them programmed up with my Apex.

Only other thing you need for the Buildmyled fixtures, is the $15 cable (available on the Buildmyled website). One cable can run 2 light fixtures.

Regarding "under the tank" stuff, I'd recommend the SWC 160 skimmer.

 

[Dewana]

Yea, if you don't mind, I'm sure my husband would love to come see your setup before I bankrupt him. . He is more the one to talk to about anything below the tank. Lol. We work as a team. Let me get back to the office, which is in far north Denton by the way, and I'll PM you for details and times you are available. Thank you very much!

 

[Dewana]

Well, I came home to find my kitchen table had been turned into a work bench. Looks like he went with an octopus 150 protein skimmer.

 

[niteowl03]

@Charlie wrote:

This is the best advice in the thread! Attend the tank tour and find setups that you like including color, growth etc and look at the lighting used. As stated there are numerous options but I wouldnt make any decisions before seeing them on a tank. LEDs are nice but I know there are quite a few people in this club alone (myself included) that switched back from LEDs to MH/T5s for growth/color etc.

PS The Reef octopus 150 is a great skimmer!

 

[reeferwanabe]

@Matt wrote:

Per Nick (BuildMyLED.com), they will be introducing anodized fixtures, I think just black. Also, they can be hung as well as sitting on top of the tank as mine is. For $15, you can buy mounts that attach to the ends and allows you to rotate the lights to any angle.

Sent from my Galaxy Note 2 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Airstreamin]

@reeferwanabe wrote:

Per Nick (BuildMyLED.com), they will be introducing anodized fixtures, I think just black. Also, they can be hung as well as sitting on top of the tank as mine is. For $15, you can buy mounts that attach to the ends and allows you to rotate the lights to any angle.

Sent from my Galaxy Note 2 using Tapatalk 2"]
This. Even though my fixtures are in a hood I'd have no problem having them on a tank without one. They're a very nice brushed finish and I think they're nicer looking than a lot of the other fixtures I've seen.

Sent from my Galaxy S3 using Tapatalk.

 

[reeferwanabe]

Mine same way. I'd thought the black would look better but the brushed aluminum blends in with my tank. No regrets.

Sent from my Galaxy Note 2 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Mike M]

@Dewana wrote:

Just got caught-up on this thread. My setup is running 5 AI Vegas and am in West Plano if you want to see them and I also have a build log with photos in my signature line that would probably give you a good idea of how things would look.

One of the big selling points for me on the Vega is the level of control and what they have in the works for expanding the system. Each fixture has 20 LED's each with its own channel of control so you have a total of 20 channels of control. Additionally, they are working on customizable power pucks that will allow you to switch LED configurations at will and, because each LED has its own control channel, you can then control the output of each color/type of LED individually. The pucks are taking a little longer to get out as they are working on the AI Director which looks be a great control interface, and because the pucks are not just a few LED's soldered onto a board. The beta version of the AI Director at MACNA gave you all kinds of control including spectrum tweaking and multiple lighting ramps to work with so that you can ramp different channels at different times and intensities.

The pucks themselves are hard coded with information as to what LED is mounted where on the puck. Thus, the controller recognizes what color LED's you have and where they are installed in the fixture. So, if you take Green/Red/Blue/White puck from one Vega and move it over to another one, it will recognize you now have additional red and green LED's in place as will the controller.

Even the basic controller that is used now has coral acclimation modes and various lighting program options available. I haven't done much with mine as I'm waiting on either the Director or for Neptune to come out with something. I agree with whoever said take a look at various setups and figure out what is important to you. What may be important to me or someone else may not be a factor in your decision making.