Back up power

D

DallasJose

[Incase anyone needs the info.

I have built this myself and it works great it's even run my 36" TV for a couple of hours.

Parts needed

1 Everstart 10 amp fully automatic/manual battery charger.
(Needs to be automatic so it will switch to trickle
Charge when the battery is fully charged since overcharg
ing a battery is unsafe.)
cost: $50
1 Duralast Car battery (12 volts the larger the better it'll last
last longer)
Cost $80
1 300 watt continous (or higher if needed) Power inverter (Get one with atleast dual outlets)
(converts 12v dc from battery to 120V ac like house power)
Cost $70
Misc wiring about $20
You will need some about 10 ga. wire to go from the Battery to the inverter.

How this works.
The charger will charge the Battery and then trickle charge it till it is needed (this is why you need the automatic feature of the charger). The battery will hold the charge how much depends on the battery you get. Finally the inverter changes the battery energy back to household energy. When the lights go out the battery has been charged and the inverter is powered letting you plug in devices to it while the power is out. You could buy a generator but those are expensive and noisy but if your not mechanically inclined that maybe the way to go.

I have one small flourescent light connected to the inverter that is always on. When the power goes out the inverter is not affected since it will run off of the battery charge. Therefore the light is always on.


here is link to reefcentral and their better explanation.

http://reefcentral.com/forums....umber=1

I also have relays exc on mine to go on automatically, but since I'm an Electronics Engineering student I didn't want to overwhelm people with a complex design. I am willing to help if you undertake this project and need help though.]
 
[Jose, I saw Playfair's battery backup last year, and was amazed. I think you should start building those for all of us so our tanks are better protected from power outages.

After all, we have a lot of money and time tied up in our reefs. Did you build yours similar to Playfair's, with all the bells and whistles?

I'd really like to pursue this in the near future. Currently, I have an APC 1500 on my 29g, and nothing on my 55g. I'd like to keep the two return pumps going at the very least, when power is out. That would be a Mag 5 and a Mag 9.5.

Where did you buy a dual outlet inverter?]
 
[oops, I meant two outputs (120v sockets)

Fry's has them and walmart also (inverters).

I can buy the relays from Fry's for about $20 for the base and Relay.

Hard to explain

I have the relay wired so that when there is house power the normally open side (closed with power) is run to one side of the relay. On the normally closed (open with power) is the inverter feed. And the common is connected to a outlet (home depot type). What this does is when the power goes out it switches from house to inverter power. There is about a 1-2 second delay and you hear the relay click. When the power comes back on the relay energizes and switches to house power again. I just bought a small 120v light from Radio shack to tell me when the relay is on, green for house power and red for inverter. I have my inverter on all the time but the load (outlet with pumps exc) only kicks in when the relay switches due to power failure, so the battery charger can support the small load of the inverter and its small fan. I don't know if any of this makes sense, I maybe confused or confusing you hehe.

I connected an extension cord from home depot (orange kind) to the outlet last bad storm when I lost power for about 8 hrs. I then connected my TV and Cable box to the cord and continued watching TV while my neighbors were in the dark. I also had a small light and bubbler running for the fish tank.

This project is not without Dangerous risks. Thats why I'd rather help people than make it for them. How many and what types of bells and whistles are you looking for? Audible alarm, light, exc]
 
[I haven't tried to run my mag 18 on the inverter yet (I'll probably try soon and see how long before the battery dies). I usually have connected a dual output bubbler with two stones and a small light for the fish tank this has outlasted all my power outages (except when I had the TV/cable connected it only lasted about 3 hrs before I had to turn off the TV and just let the aquarium stuff run). Some pumps don't like Square sine wave I had a Rio that didn't work with it, it would just rattle though a small mag pump did run off of the inverter.]
 
[I am quite sure that being as new to all of this as I am, that I am definately missing something here. So, any enlightenment would be appreciated.

Why go through all of this when you can purchase a UPS at most any local computer center for $125 or so, that is rated to run a complete computer system for up to an hour. Somehow I doubt that a return pump and a couple of power heads would pull as many amps as a computer and monitor does.]
 
[This type of battery back up is a serious project. When you end up tying thousands of dollars into your system, you need it to keep running even when bad events occur.

I have an APC1500 on my 29g's Mag5 return pump. It will run that pump (54w) for about 4 hours, by my estimation. A huge car battery would last longer obviously. The APC costs well over $130, that would be closer to the APC 800VA unit.

Some people have actually bought gas generators to keep their system running. I have had times when we didn't have power for 6 hours in a row, and times where it flickers for a second or two.

Obviously the biggest draw of power is the lighting. Or in the winter, the heater (200w! or more). This is just a great way to keep your system running.

Btw, some people have bought a power inverter that plugs into their car, into which they plug in an extention cord and the pump into that.

I've even wondered if there was any value in filling up an air compressor and regulating the output to provide oxygen into the tank for a number of hours. ???]
 
[Hello,

Good news bad news. The mag 18 will run off of the inverter but it makes a semi loud humming noise. Though in my house the A/C overpowers it, so not a porblem for me. It appears to be running at normal capacity (pump). A good point about the upc Hawgman. I have a upc for my computer but it only lasts about 10 min at best before it dies out, most use Very small gel batteries (you'll never run a 19" montor and modern PC (1.5-3GHZ)on most consumer priced APC's for an hour let alone a TV too). On the other hand a car battery can last several hours without hesitation. There is the option to connect two batteries in parallel as long as they are the same type (brand and capacity) of battery. Like I said before, I've even run my Tv off of it (inverter). Mechanically inclined people like myself (Most reefers should be since the plumbing/electrical/woodworking skills they aquire will almost guarantee them employment as contractors hehe)find the challenge of this project and the payoff to be worth it. Then again it's not for everybody and Basic electrical knowledge is mandatory even moreso to wire relays exc. JMHO]
 
[Here are some specs I've looked up. Take these with a grain of salt since I'll admit some numbers maybe off.

The battery I have is Rated

850 CCA
1000 CA
155 Reserve

Autozone $80 comes with 24 month replacement gaurantee
Just take it back and exchange for a new one

The most important nuber is 155 this is the amount of time in minutes that the battery can power a 25 amp load before it drops below 10.5volts. What this means is that this battery can run about 2.5 hrs at 25 amps.

The numbers I use below are just ballpark figure so be advised.

Luckily 12volts and 120volts are close enough for this example for me to show the conversion. Simple ratio of 12v/25amps is about 120v/2.5 amps. Inverters run about 90% effieciency so these numbers are what we'll use.
A 300 watt inverter is rated at (using ohms law)
300/120 = 2.5 (don't these numbers look familiar)

300 watts divided by 120 watts eqauls 2.5 amps where 120volts multiplied by 2.5 amps equals 300 watts (Ohms law V*I=P)

What all that math means is that a 300 watt inverter can run at full load for about 2.5 hours.

Watts and hours are numbers most of us can work with so then we can figure out what to run and for how long.

Mag 18 is rated at about 150 watts so in theory it should run if it is the only load about 5 hrs using the above numbers.

Mag 9.5 is rated at about 100 watts so in thoery it can run if it's the only load for about 7.5 hours.

So lets say you have a mag 9.5 for your main pump and another for your skimmer. Also two 55 watt compact flourescents. Thats a total load around 310 Watts.

So you should be able to run the above for 2.5 hrs.

I kept the nubers simple for ease of explanation. You know nothing is 100% effiecient nor the numbers perfect but the numbers are close enough to be used as examples.

If you added a second battery you would effectively double your run time OR load (bigger 600watt inverter)

Excuse any spelling or math errors feel free to bring them to my attention for correction. I hope this helped.

Edit
Inverter are rated continuos (sp) and peak.
I used continuos (sp) in my calculations. This being the load the inverter can run for long periods of time not just peaks]
 
[@DallasJose wrote:
Mechanically inclined people like myself (Most reefers should be since the plumbing/electrical/woodworking skills they aquire will almost guarantee them employment as contractors hehe)find the challenge of this project and the payoff to be worth it. Then again it's not for everybody and Basic electrical knowledge is mandatory even moreso to wire relays exc. JMHO said:
Not afraid of the mechanics, I am a technicial engineer. So that was not the issue. I just was not sure why to go through so much when it would appear ( to a novice as myself ) a suitable alternative ( at least financially ) was readily available. For instance, I ran across this one at MicroCenter http://www.microcenter.com/single_....0152080
It's $169, plenty of outlets, and claims 45 minute up time on half load ( of the 8 outlets ) with computer equipment. I would think that it should do fine with just a return pump and power heads. To be quite honest about it, I would have never considered worrying about having the lights on. So I can see how that would very quickly cut into the up time of a UPS.

I must admit, Jose's project is very intriguing. I certainly hope that he keeps up the good research, and keeps us posted as to the results.]
Click to expand...
 
[The problem with those units as you can see is at full load you have 5 minutes. yeah 5 minutes. Also just because it has 8 outlets does not mean all are backup. Usually only half are the rest are just surge protected. Open one of these units up and you'll see what I'm talking about, a battery the size of a large glass though this unit probably has two.

$169.99
what is shipping

From site
45 minutes backup time half load; 5 minutes backup time full load
This unit has 8 surge-protected outlets, four of which also include battery backup
User replaceable maintenance-free sealed lead-acid battery
(oops just one battery)

UPS Lets see at 390 watts you have 5 minutes run time full load
DIY UPS 300 watts you have 150 minutes run time full load.

This unit $170
DIY about $170

Showing your friends you elite engineering skills priceless
For another $80 (second Battery) you effectively double your capacity.]
 
[Not debating the validity of your project. In fact, I believe I complimented you on it. It is a pretty dang kewl idea. Not exactly sure I would say "elite engineering", but certainly kewl :)

I assume shipping would be no big deal if you just drove to the store. It's right on Central and Midpark.

But you may want to recheck your prices. By your own list, your parts are $220, plus another $20 for relays, and another $80 for the optional battery. For $289 you can get a 2200VA UPS with 1320 watts ( and that is with free shipping by the way ). Yes, you ARE going to get more out of a couple of car batteries. But personally, all I am concerned about is keeping water flow in the tank. Don't care if I can keep the lights on or if I can watch TV or not.

As I said though, it is a kewl project. And I certainly do understand. I'm one of those that spends $500 on cooling a $100 CPU to get the same output out of it as I would if I just went out and spent $300 on a new CPU. It is the thrill of being able to say that you did it yourself.

Once again, I commend you on your research and your skills. Good work.]
 
[
For $289 you can get a 2200VA UPS with 1320 watts said:
I need to see this are you sure it's not a closeout or sale. I looked at microcenter website's UPS

Smart-UPS 1000VA $489.00
Smart-UPS 1400VA Rack Mount 2U $769.00 *****
APC Battery Back-UPS XS 1000 VA $159.99
APC Back-UPS XS 1500VA $199.99 ******

specs for the above UPS 1500VA
865 watts
24 minutes backup time half load; 8 minutes backup time full load.
Which means about an hour at 300 watts continuous load.
I would consider this UPS but it's less than half the runtime of a DIY one.



Also these are rated VA here's an article from the web to bring us up to speed on why they use these higher numbers.

"For most the term V*A is interchangeable with Watts. However,
as far as I know VA is used for devices which do not *consume*
power (like a transformer), whilst Watts are used for devices
that *consume* power (like a power drill)."

Not correct. Volt amperes are just that: the product of the voltage
and the current flowing into (or out of) a circuit. Watts are the
"real" or heating power of the circuit, and are the product of the
voltage and the "real" or in-phase component of the current. Watts are
the product of the voltage times the current times the cosine of the
phase angle between them. The "power factor" of a circuit is the cosine
of the angle between voltage and the current if expressed in per unit,
or 100 times that if expressed in percent.

Example: An induction motor can have a power factor of the order of
70%. (It is an inductive load.) If the voltage is 100 and the current
10 amperes, the motor would be "drawing" 1000 VA, but the real power
would be 10 times 100 times 70/100, or 700 watts.

Essentially VA is a marketing ploy to use higher numbers.]
Click to expand...
 
[I found the 2200 through pricewatch. It was not at MicroCenter.

Powercom
Info...

2200VA,Back UPS,King Pro 2200AP,AVR,Software,Retail Box 6 Outlets, with Auto Voltage Regulator KIN-2200AP King pro 2200AP,2200VA,1320Watt,6-Outlet,RJ45/RJ11,upto 95mins backup,1-year dealer warranty
(Part - N82E16842106116)
Price: $285
Ship 1 : Free FedEx Saver
Updated:6/26, 1:59PM
$285 Newegg.com
Info...

800-390-1119
909-395-9046]
 
[I cant compete with a pricewatch special.

I looked for ten 300watt inverters avg price $60
Same for car battery highest cost $100
Charger $ 70
relay $ 30
wiring $20

Total about $300 higher end components

looked at top 5 prices from price watch
for 2200 VA UPS

Newegg $ 285 (Great deal/steal)

GoReady .com $356

PCnation.com $539.8

Etech warehouse $619.865

PCnation $622

lowest 285 + highest 622 = $907 /2 = $453 Average cost

That is double the cost. But your deal is a great deal no doubt, but not indicative of local prices or average prices.

Find me a local (Dallas area) 2200VA unit for under $300 then were cooking.

1300 watts yeah for what 5 minutes like the others?



Highest I found

American Power Conversion
Info...

SU2200RMXLTX153 SMART UPS 2200VA XOPTION
Price $1733.8 plus $97 shipping.


DIY you save over a thousand.
Maybe I should make a video and start infomercials hehe]
 
[Hello,

Well the MAG 18 ran for about 3 hours and 30 minutes before it pumped no more. I will check the battery water levels to see if they were low.

Most outages are less than 2 hrs so I'm still cool with this.
Mag 18 pumps about 1200 gph after head losses so plenty of flow. Common sense would then dictate if an outage lasts longer than two hours swith to bubblers at that point.

I will connect two 65 watt compact flourescents and the pump to see how long this will last.]
 
[Jose, I appreciate the testing you are doing. I never did that, as I simply figured out the total wattage I would draw, and divided that into what my UPS could provide to figure out how long it would run.]
 
[I read this thread with interest, and finally took the plunge to start this project. I bought a 350 watt inverter from Fry's Electronic for $50 or so. I could not find battery charger at Fry's. I suspect they are at Autozone. So I'll check there first.
I'm going to use this unit to power 2 Mag-12 pump. I would buy a generator, but that's a much bigger projet.]
 
[Be sure to use a "trickle" (slow) charger. A fast charger can create explosive gases while charging. (Don't worry trickle charger will not add nitrates to your tank.LOL)]
 
[:;):
Went the quick way out of this mess. Bought a 5000w gen and called it a day on the stress.
Good luck on the charts, graphs and squiggley lines.
M :lookaround:
ps: I do have a couple small powerheads,(55w) on the small $35 buck, Harbor Frieght battery backup, just o keep the zenas from falling over. :lookaround:]
 
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