Starting a 295 gal in wall and need help.

[extinguishfire]

Well my order for a 295 gal tank was put in today to Deep Sea Aquatics which is the former custom tank makers for Oceanic when they were still in Dallas before joining forces with All Glass. It will be a 72" long x 30" front to back x 31.5" high with stainless steel frame for a total of 295 gallons. I plan on having this tank as an in wall tank with a 4' x 12' foot closet behind it. One end of the closet is bullnosed due to a curved wall, so a little bit on space taken out. On the other side I have a sink and plumbing for making cleaning easier.

I am in the process of trying to plan out everything. I need to figure out skimmer, sump design, lighting, water change automation, top off automation, cooling, venting humidity, and the big hole in the wall. I plan on running this tank as a mixed reef with mostly lps and sps.

The tank will have 2 corner overflows each with a 1.5" drain and 2 1" returns. I am planning on running a sequence barracuda that does I think 4600 gph to the 4 returns through an oceans motions 4 way device. How does that sound? Instead of a close loop I plan on doing 2 or 3 vortech pumps on their unreleased "coming soon" controller.

For right now I am thinking of just doing 2 250 watt se or de mh in lumenaric reflectors with t-5s. Also using electronic ballasts. Not sure whether to do se or de or what is best. Seems like there are more bulb selection for se. But is de the way everything will go to in the future. Also wonder how the lumenaric vented reflectors work. Anyone know?

For a skimmer I have been thinking of an Euro-Reef RC500 but just recently premium aquatics has started carrying Bubble King skimmers. For approx. 500 bucks more I can get one of those comparable. Don't know what to do and don't know much about the Bubble King. Any help?

I plan on painting the room something to keep moisture penetration down and painting the support stand. Any ideas on what is best?

More questions to come. I am sure I probably put to many questions up here already. Please help with ideas and answers. I want to get this set up right in the first place.

I started this same post and thread at RC if ya want to follow along with that one.

 

[masharp1126]

Chris, at a quick glance, here's my suggestions (take them for what they're worth)

Return pump - I think Barracuda is too much (3,800 gph and 360 watts). That's like 16 times turnover through your sump. If you wanting that high, I'd go with a Dart (3,200 gph, but only 160 watts). While I haven't gotten my return pump yet, I'll probably go with an Iwaki 70 or 100 returning through two Sea Swirls (which I do have). That will give me about 3 turnovers per hour through the sump.

Lights - With 30"+ depth, I'd go with 400w MH's.

Skimmer - While the Euroreef and Bubble King are great, I just couldn't spend $1,500 to $2,000 for a skimmer. Unless I just had tons of money to blow. If I did, I'd go with the Bubble King. Most of the stuff I've read on RC tends to rate them the highest. Realistically, I'm going with an ASM G-5 skimmer on my new one. That one and the Trigger skimmer were my top choices, and I got a great deal on the G-5. Once I get a full bioload in my tank, I'll probably have to upgrade, but this one will get me by for a couple of years.

 

[extinguishfire]

@masharp1126 wrote:

I appreciate the feedback. Thanks for pointing out that info on the pump. The barracuda was a suggestion by a friend. Electric consumption is an issue but Sequence says there average wattage consumption is 228 for the and 145 for the dart. As far as gph(4300/3600) I can always dial it down with a ball valve. I may have to use a chiller, so I want to have a pump that can push through the chiller and return to the tank. Dart has just 12 feet of head pressue compared to 20 with the barracuda. Also plan on running miracle mud in my fuge and it suggested to have a higher flow rate through the sump.

With the right bulbs and ballast combo 250s have shown to be just as good as some 400s on par value. I presently have 250s over my 140 which is 29.5 inches high and things have been good. I also plan on having t-5s inthe mix.

I have a asm now on my present tank and it has been fine but I think I want to go with a higher end skimmer. I recently read a email from Euro Reef that showed quite a bit of difference in the quality of the skimmate production with the different materials that are used between ASM and ER. ASM was a good deal back when their prices were lower but now that they have raised their prices and Euro-Reef dropped theirs, there isn't much of a reason to not go with a Euro-Reef as opposed to a ASM. As far as the Bubble King goes, I don't know much about it and just have heard that they are awesome but what makes them better I don't know.

 

[kwl1763]

I agree on overkill with the pump. Use the barracuda and 4 way for a closed loop. Hook up an Iwaki 55 or 70 for the return. You don't need or want near that much turnover through your sump.

I think you can easily get away with two Lumenarcs on that tank but you will for sure want to go with 400W bulbs to penetrate all the way down and to get full 3 ft of coverage your going to want the lamos at 12-15 inches above the water. If your willing to go with some high Par bulbs like 10k XMs or Ushios you can probably be fine with 250s but if you want to run reeflux's or 20ks then 400W is in order.

Either Skimmer is great. you might also consider a ATI BM250. comparable to the BK but I've heard nothing but awesome things about them!

Plan your venting and humidity issues now! It will be an issue and you need to make sure you venting air from the top of the room since it will be the hottest.

For paint I would highly recommend Bilgekote.

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I painted my whole fish room in it and I've had zero issues. It is super sturdy and you can just wipe it off with a wet rag and it's just like new. Perfectly waterproof and zero mold issues.

 

[vthondaboi]

I'd look into a Sequence Skimmer, seems like reviews have been great so far.

I have a BM250 and wouldn't look back really. Great skimemr all around except for build quality, but going into the sump it's not a big issue. Oh and it should be called a foam master!

One thing I learned about high-end skimmers is the bubble diffuser plate. ATI BM, Sequence and BK all use them. But it seems like the BK and Sequence are the two that effectively utilize it. The one on the ATI BM is really there for show and only helps a little.

 

[BigStun]

Bubblekings are sweet...I've seen one in action and they are insanely good.

I had 2x250 on my 72" tank and wasn't happy..had a dark spot in the middle. I added and third 250 and am a lot happier.

 

[Scuba_Steve]

@BigStun wrote:

Thats where the luminarcs come to play, especially with 400s. They are designed to cover 3x3 instead of a normal halides 2x2 space. Also, and I could be wrong on this. You were worried about extra head pressure from your chiller and such. Head pressure is only from a vertical rise, not a horizontal. Now you would lose a little bit just from the longer pipe run, but its no where near the same.

 

[extinguishfire]

@kwl1763 wrote:

Thanks for the suggestions. I was planning on doing 10k xms with t5 supplements. As far as just having two of them, it is just a start for now. Later down the road if I need to add a third I may go with a 400w in the middle between the two. I was very surprised when I saw David and Nikki's 400 gallon 96 x 32 x 30 tank. It only has two 250 de 14k phoenix bulbs and 8 four foot t-5s. Pic here( I hope you don't mind David and Nikki).

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Granted there is a dark spot in the middle but this tank is also 2 foot longer.

I was trying to get away from doing a closed loop and just having the return with random as opposed to constant flow using the oceansmotions 4 way. Then adding Vortechs on a controller that way I don't have all these holes drilled in my tank. I will prob. revisit the pump selection and look into it more. I am just concerned if I have to add a chiller to the room that the dart won't be enough. And I can always reduce the flow of the barracuda right?

Thanks for the paint recommendation. I am going to plan on painting my room with that then. Is it easily found at home depot or lowes? And since it is just sheetrock and not greenboard I planned on putting some pond liner above the tank front to protect that sheetrock. I also planned on lining the floor of the stand and room with pond liner to keep any spills and leaks from going out of the room.

You mention air circulation and venting, tell me if this sounds like a good idea. I planned on having a vent in ceiling to attic and then I was thinking of trying to somehow get fresh air back into the room. It does not have any a/c vents in the room. But not sure where to get the fresh air from. Attic air would be to hot, outside air would be to hot during summertime and to cold during winter time, and if got air from the room ajoining closet would it allow moist air to get out of the closet and into my living spaces driving up the house humidity? Plus the idea of seeing a fan on the wall in the study and I don't think my wife would like that. I was also thinking of hooking up the vent fan up to a humidity sensor.

 

[extinguishfire]

@BigStun wrote:

Did you just have halides on the tank at that time? What kind of reflectors were you using? Do you have any pics? I figure with the lumenaric reflectors it should be that big on an issue since they distribute the light so well.

 

[extinguishfire]

@Scuba_Steve wrote:

Yeah I wasn't sure if length and height was the same. Plus wouldn't the chiller need to have so many gph through it to be effective? I figure that the humidity level in the closet would be lower if I used a chiller but would the added heat of the chiller cause more problems in the room? Also it only runs when needed right so if big enough would only come a few times a day for a little while, right? I would like to get away without a chiller but don't want high reef temps. I just wish that the tank was on an outside wall so that I could just put the chiller outside like Rick, Superman and Weedonphoto has.

 

[melev]

The chiller mfg will state their recommended GPH throughput. If you push 3600gph through the chiller, it won't work. I've read about many people using about 500 to 600gph for their chillers, but I would do whatever the mfg recommends. Running the chiller outdoors will work best, economically as well as silently.

Having a high end pump that uses more power with a ballvalve to slow it down seems wasteful and expensive. Why not just get the right sized pump in the first place? I used to have an Ampmaster 4700 on my reef that cost $25 a month to run (485w) when the rates were .09 kwh. Now that we pay .14kwh or more, it would be even higher. I switched to a Little Giant pump that uses 141w of power. Couldn't be happier. I have a Sequence Dart on the shelf as a backup pump for when this one fails.

Venting the fishroom is good, but it needs to vent right out of your home. Pumping moist salty air into the attic will create mold issues.

 

[kwl1763]

Concur with Marc, the chiller will have a recommendation for GPH you should get close to and you need to vent to the outside.

If your going to need a chiller, I would highly recommend putting it in your attic it would work much better and the chiller would add significant heat if it was in the room.

Running vortecs/Tunze instead of a closed loop is fine. I would again forgo the big pump though on the return for many reasons including:

1) Microbubble problems
2) Ability for 2 1" returns (all that's on with 4 way) to handle that much flow anyway
3) You neccessarily get less surface water overflowing (slimmer amounts skimmed off the top are more efficient for the skimmer)

What I personally would do is decide if you do want a chiller. If you do then get a pump that would deliver the required GPH and send to the tank as the return. Then I would cover the sumps and have as little evaporation as possible.

With no chiller you'll want to have air blowing between the lights and tank and some heavy duty air exchange out of the house. Pulling from an adjacent room is probably your best option. Your house is probably not air tight enough to worry about a negative pressure situation.

 

[Tremelle]

As far as skimmers go, you should also consider the Deltec AP702. I have been using one on my 210 system for almost a year now. It is my second Deltec and I love the build quality. Deltec also provides excellent customer support either through the Deltec forum on Reef Central or from Deltec USA direct.

 

[Superman]

Chris,

A couple questions need to be answered before you make the decision on your pump.
1. What is the target flow rate for your sump?
2. If you plan on using a chiller, do you plan on T'ing it off and going though the chiller?
3. How much head pressure do you anticipate?
I have been very happy with sequence pumps so far. I have used both Dart and Barracuda pumps on various customers tanks and as you know I used the Hammerhead on my tank.
My initial thought is that the Dart will not be enough. At 9ft of head pressure, it pushes 1500 GPH.
Another interesting thing about reeflo pumps, accourding to reeflo, the pumps watt draw varies based on the amount of head pressure. For example, the Dart at 9ft of head pressure consumes 160 watts whereas the Barracuda consumes 140 watts. You can get performance diagrams from their website.

 

[ss95003]

I have a dart as my return just because of the low energy consumpstion and it allows me to run multi things off it. I have it restricted so i get no micro bubble in the display. But with the one return pump i run 2 phosban reactors, my Ca reactor, and i plan on plumbing in a frag tank in the near future. It's nice to just be able to plumb something in off an exicting pump instead of adding more pumps for each peice of equipment you buy.


I also have my 180G in wall which is in a closet as well. I painted the entire closed with Premuim Kills primer to help with the moister. I also installed a exhast fan that is runs off a thermistat.

 

[georgeorndorff]

I'm also in the middle of setting up a new 150 gal in wall tank. Take a look at these lights http://www.catalinaaquarium.com// . They are t5 lights, I had Jim there make me a custom light with 10 80 watt bulbs (5 420 blues and 5 10K white) and boy are they bright . cost $560 with bulbs I'm hoping they will light my reef well and I think they should, and a lot cheaper to run then MH. Take a look....George Orndorff