PH swings - any suggestions?

[DeMarcusR]

I just reconnected (and calibrated) my PH probe to my ac jr and noticed that the PH on my 180 is 7.5.

What is the best way to raise the ph back to 8.xx?





(I tried the search function here for 30 mins before posting. guess "PH" is too vague to yield decent results)

 

[psteeleb]

even if you recalibrated your probe coupld be off so you may want to try a test kit to check. I'm not saying test kits are that accurate but it would tell youif your in the bal park

it wont hurt anythign to try and get more oxygen into the tank, If the tanks near a window try opening it for a while or run an air pump from a windo with a airstone in your tank or sump

if your sure it's a low ph, I would gop with oxygen first and if that doesn't cut it, then try add pickling lime (Kalk)

 

[DeMarcusR]

@psteeleb wrote:

Thanks for the suggestion - I thought the tank was possibly getting too much air... It's sitting 5 feet from the back door which has been opened all day and two windows about 10 ft from it which have been open all week. The cabinet and canopy doors on the tank have been opened for the past couple of days.. (been trying to let the house air out) I checked the ph with the liquid test kit earlier today which is what prompted me to buy the liquid to calibrate the ph probe..

With the pickling lime - how would I dose it? I USED to add a spoon/gallon to my top off when I had my 260 in the wall but have since stopped using it.. Shoud I add 1 spoon/ gallon of water in the tank or would that be severe overkill? Also - roughly how long should it take to get the ph back to normal? I know i'm not going to see an instant change.....

 

[psteeleb]

dont add the pickling line directly - if you do top off its best to add some to it, Do you have a sump? If so add it to the sump in a fast flow area

I'd avoid raising the ph more them 0.2 in a few hours. Best to take your time then to rush it.

 

[DeMarcusR]

@psteeleb wrote:

Yes - I do have a sump. probably about 70g total water volume.
If I add the lime to the sump - how much should i be adding? I just added 1 tablespoon to the drain area. Is that enough or should I add another?

would it be safe to raise the ph to 8.0 slowly by morning by dosing every few hours? I'll be sitting in front of the tank most of the night with the laptop so I've got nothing but time.

Also - thanks so much for your help!

 

[Ashlar]

Marcus, as long as your alk and cal are within acceptable ranges, and the ph is fairly steady, I wouldn't worry too much. The shock of going from 7.5 -> 8.2 could cause more damage than the 7.5 alone, if I recall RHF's article correctly.

 

[DaveJ]

Marcus,

Kalk dosing is really used, in relation to pH, as a way to maintain a level. Any rise in pH you get will be temporary. Unless you are using a kalk reactor or dosing kalk as part of your top off, you will not get the results you want. In order to get that result with kalk, you need a steady drip. Doing it once or twice a day will just bounce you up and down and that is not a good method.

What are your current Alk, Ca and Mg levels? Make sure those are in line and where you want them before tackling this with pH. I run mine at 7.5 dKH, 440 and 1400 ppm and maintain a pH right around 8.0 plus and minus .3 during the day.

While the pH is low, so long as it is stable, you should be okay. However, you are on the borderline so your margin of error is small.

The other thing to look at is CO2 build-up in your system, are you running a calcium reactor by chance? If you can air out your house that would help too since the fresh air will help get rid of that CO2 if that is the problem. Make sure you don't have any tops on your tank, make sure you are evaporating a decent amount of water each day etc.

As far as how to dose... you take a tablespoon of kalk and mix it into a gallon of RO. Wait for it to settle and drain off the clear. You will get a skin on the surface and powder at the bottom. Drain off the middle part and then slowly drip or add to your sump. You could use a shot glass if you don't have a drip line and add one shot every 5 - 10 minutes. Bump it about .10 to .20 at a time at most.

 

[DeMarcusR]

My last problem was with the PH being too low now - I think it's swinging too high..

Over the past three weeks or so - I've been at 8.1 when the lights are off and gradually increasing when the lights come on. By the time the lights turn off - the ph is at 8.43 every night.
The lights come on at 12:00 and 1:00pm and stay on for roughly 11-12hrs.
The fuge light is on 24hrs to avoid PH swings (which obviously aint happening)

I havent dosed anything other than iodine since my last post. I've done a few water changes but nothing else.. Havent added any fish or changed any equipment.

CA has been holding steady in the 440 range.. Coraline growth is great - Ive even noticed some acro colonies starting to regain color.

Could this be caused by the CA reactor running with no CO2? Theres just water flowing over the media... I keep forgetting to get the cannister refilled..

 

[DaveJ]

@djr2001 wrote:

Your pH is excellent, not too high. That range is almost ideal... ideally it would be 8.2 or 8.3 on a continual basis... as far as the Ca reactor causing it, its not a direct relationship but if you had it turned on it could lower the pH a bit, so it being off may promote a higher pH level. Make sure your alk is ok and if its in range, along with your ca and mg, then you are right in the sweet zone.

 

[Rick]

@djr2001 wrote:

After you calibrated did you stick into the calibration fluid to see how close it was reading? 7.5 sounds pretty low to me. And what is your alkalinity? Alkalinity is a buffer against the Ph swings. And if you are no longer adding Co2 to the calcium and reactor and therefore the tank, you would see a upswing in the pH. And unless you are dosing calcium carbonate another way, your alkalinity and calcium will be going down.

 

[washingtond]

Marcus before you start dosing I would do the following as suggest by many above.

First recheck the calibration of you probe.

Second with test kits test the following water parameters:
PH
Alk
Calcium Level
Magnesium Level

Post all that data and also tell us what test kits you used. They all interact together.

The reason why you need to do this is to you know what levels everything in the tank are at. By doing this you will know what you need to dose. I am concerned that you are not adding CO2 to you calcium reactor. The effluent dripped into the tank would have a tendency to lower the PH and one why to counter would be to open the windows will bring in fresh air which would raise the PH. Without the CO2 your reactor is not really adding calcium carbonate to the tank as Rich stated.

Also tell us what corals you have in your tank as that would give us an idea as to what you r demand is for calcium and Alk.

The important thing is not to change anything in the tank too quickly.

 

[blide]

@djr2001 wrote:

Is your ACjr hooked up to the serial port of a PC? If so that can cause a grounding issue and give false readings.

 

[DeMarcusR]

Rick - I calibrated the probe a few days before the first post back in nov..
Since then the ph reading have been much higher than 7.1....

@washingtond wrote:

I do not have a MG or ALK test kit. I ran out a few months ago and never purchased more. CA has been holding in the 440 range with no dosing.
I have turned off the ca reactor since the co2 is empty - figured tthat I didn't need to burn the extra electricity by having two pumps running.

@blide wrote:

Is your ACjr hooked up to the serial port of a PC? If so that can cause a grounding issue and give false readings."]

Nope.. Not connected to the pc.
I did just finish calibrating the probe.. It wasn't off by much (.04)..

Over the past few days, I've had the cabinet open while the back door to the house was open to get some fresh air in but there hasn't been much difference in the PH.

 

[psteeleb]

mg test kits are hard to come by right now. but if you can get access to an Alk test kit it may help give you your answer. I agree the range is in that ideal area, so it's not to high. what you want to do is keep the daily swings to a minimal. I think it was Rick that pointed out how your alk content will help contain or buffer the swings. So if you do any thing next; I'd get your alkalinity checked first. Low Mg can cause alkalinity problens also that's why it's important to check but as I indicated the Mg test kits are hard to get right now.

I'm probably repeating other posts but ph swing is normal from night to day in any aquarium. In the ocean it's asorbed in the mass by shear volumn. Volumn helps (size of sumps, tank etc) but we can never get the ratio of the ocean, so we try to offset these swings by other means. this includes duplicate but reverse photsyntisis cycles. The swings are mostly due to the Co2 and Oxegen cycles changing in photosynthetic creatures (algeas and coral) and the reduced O2 intake while fish sleep. The reverse light cycle in a remote sump or refugium with macro algeas helps neutralize these C02/O2 swings that, again, are the main cause the ph swings. And the alkalinity helps to buffer them when they do happen. So we tackle the ph swings on two fronts; it's cause (CO2/O2 swings) and effect (wilth buffers). Generally speaking, if you can get the swing to within 0.2 or 0.3 per 24 hour cycle you are doing good. The smaller the swing the better.


I went back and read your earlier post - try shutting off your sump light durring the day or you defeat the purpose IMHO

 

[DeMarcusR]

@psteeleb wrote:

I've gone ahead and connected the sump/fuge light to come on 30 minutes before the main lights turn off and turn off 30 minutes before the main lights come on.. Should that be sufficient, as far as lighting goes?

When I get the Co2 refilled, I think I'm going to have the ACjr run it rather than using the American Marine pinpoint controller handle it. That thing is just a PITA to calibrate and tends to need calibrating every other month. Eventually I'm going to upgrade to an AC3 so I can monitor 2 ph sources but until then should I just leave the pinpoint in place or let the AC jr regulate PH and use another device to monitor the tank's ph?

 

[psteeleb]

the reverse cycle lighting should help - the more macro algea growing in the sump the better. the reverse cycle lighting works with ballancing both the O2 and CO2 so it fights the swings from both sides. I wouldn't worry about the Ca reactor until you can check both the Ca and alk. if you are okay on Ca and low on Alk you want to get them (and Mg) to the right numbers first. As I understand it, Ca reactors are good for maintaining the values but are not intended to make adjustments, especially if you are out of ballance.

 

[melev]

I've just read the entire thread and I just don't believe your numbers. However, how is your tank doing? What's going on with the livestock? Are they healthy and happy? Sluggish and pale?

You just posted the pH is 7.1?! Are you referring to a measurement of the effluent from your reactor, or the water in the tank?

Don't dose anything, and get some water tests done. If you can't do them, pay your LFS to do them. Without real numbers, we can't help you. And with real numbers we might find there is no problem at all.

 

[DeMarcusR]

@Marc wrote:

7.5 was waaaay back in Nov.. I dont think it's gotten down to 7.1
Right now, its 8.1 at the lowest point of the day - which is normally in the morning/early afternoon.
The tank itself is currently at 8.46.
The livestock look great. No one is sluggish - everything is very active - even the acropora colonies are coloring up quite nicely, I've even got two random sps' that have started encrusting.

I've stopped dosing everything until I can get some test kits or at least get the time to head to a store and get the MG and ALK tested. I had everything else tested last week when I dropped by Frank's (ph, ca, nitrate, *ite) All of which tested quite well...

I'll try to post some pictures shortly - once I figure out how to take decent pictures. ( I just tried to take some pictures but they all appear rather yellow'ish)

 

[DeMarcusR]

pictures as promissed.. Definately not the best but hopefully you can see things are healthy. The only thing in the tank I'm concerned with is the Gbta that looks very deflated.. It's looked like that for about 8 months now - even before moving to the bigger tank..

I've had this camera 4 yrs and still dont know how to use the zoom features...

alt="">

alt="">

alt="">

alt="">

alt="">

alt="">

alt="">

alt="">

 

[DeMarcusR]

alt="">

alt="">

alt="">

alt="">

alt="">

alt="">