Hello,I just purchased a home with a reef tank built into the wall. I know nothing about aquariums. My 14 year old has a freshwater tank, but is just learning. The previous home owners had a service company come out to clean/service the tank 2x a month, however, at $85 +tax each visit, this will not be in our budget. Do you recommend having someone service a reef tank? Or do most people do it themselves? My son is eager to do it himself, however, I don't want him killing everything in the tank in the process. What is the learning curve on something like this? I'm thinking maybe we should pay for someone to servce it 1x/month and let my son do it once a month. Then see how it goes.Advice?
NEW REEF TANK OWNER
- Thread starter LANNJO
- Start date
Tank size is is 150 gallons.The corals (I think) are sinularia, button polyps, cabbage leather, hairy mushroom, red mushrooms.The fish are melanurus wrasse, a pair of maroon clowns, 2 four stripe damsels, and a pajama cardinal, red spindly leg starfish, long spined sea urchin.There is no sump. The filter is a trickle filter built into the back of the tank. There is no water changing station. The current maintenance service brings all of the jugs of water them.I'm not sure how old the tank is, but the drywall and trim all around the backside of the tank is not looking too good. We are concerned we need to either take the whole thing out and just get rid of it, or start over with a better tank system. I'm not sure what is even supporting this tank behind the drywall.
jccaclimber
Premium Member
The first big question: Are you happy with it as it looks today? If so, keeping it going as-is shouldn't be hard. If not, what are your goals? Are you trying to turn it in to a more colorful reef, different fish, or something else?A picture of the back (and the front for that matter) would help. I'm having a hard time telling from the description if it's an older all in one (I've seen a few in that size range), or if you are saying the filtration is in a separate container behind the main display. Depending on your goals, you can almost certainly keep it going or do something nice with the current system. You could replace it, but it will probably be much cheaper not to, and almost anything can be worked around with the right skill set.The lowest cost option is to read, ask questions here, and visit other members. At least most of the people I know are happy to explain what they are doing to anyone who wants to come by when they are maintaining their tanks. IMO most people with enough time reading then asking questions as needed can maintain their own reefs. Some do better than others, but as with anything else, it gets easier with experience. Alternatively, if you want to hire someone to do some training, there are plenty of options for that as well.There isn't anything in that fish list that is terribly sensitive, so I'd say there's not immediate peril as you get things figured out. Just be careful not to stab yourself on the long spine urchin. The maroons and damsels can be rather, ahem, assertive, so take care in selecting future fish if you keep those.A lot of built in systems don't think out ventilation very well. If you're having a mold issue, glass lids if there aren't any, and a 5v or 12v fan to vent the air above the aquarium will go a long way to preventing recurrence once you get it cleaned up a bit. If you're not and the drywall just looks poorly finished or like it has been hit in places, that isn't unusual behind built ins either as few people ever see it.Finally, please post a location! Zip code is fine, we don't need your exact address, but even if you're out in the middle of nowhere it might turn out that an experienced member lives right around the corner from you. This happens more often than you might think.
jenkinscrew
Premium Member
I think it is great your son wants to take on the task. If you are wanting to keep it, I would have yours son observe the ones doing the maintenance, once a month like you said. With a tank that size I would recommend an RODI unit to make your own water and mix saltwater yourself to save time going to the store for water. Let us know where you are and I am sure one of the members could come over to assess the situation and give you some pointers/suggestions.
Here are a few pics of the tankView attachment 4812
jccaclimber
Premium Member
Honestly as far as built ins that I've seen go, that really isn't bad at all. Most importantly you have access to both the top and the back. Personally I would convert a portion of the back to a refugium running some chaeto, slowly phase out the bioballs for live rock rubble or ceramic media, and maybe add a fan (on a temperature control depending on your summer house temperature), but none of that is hard. As much as I'd like to make fun of the skimmer setup on top of the tank, if it's working I'd leave it, and I've done worse with success.What is the lighting?
Here are a few more pics of the lights. Currently there is a T5 (one blue and one white) and an LED system but only 1/2 of the LED bar is working. In the the fluorescent light system there are 2 empty bays for 2 more T5 lights. Does it matter what color we use? The LED lights are very weak. Is it worth replacing those or converting the whole thing to a LED system? The housing for the lights does seem to be designed for a salt water environment because of the lack of corrosion on it. I took a few more pics of the protein skimmer as well just to show the leak and that the skimmate is not going to the top of the skimmer. The collection container for the skimmate (outside of the skimmer) has not been filling up....maybe that isn't a problem? View attachment 4825
jccaclimber
Premium Member
[Hopefully this shows up as your text in black and mine in blue.][We live in the 75022 zip code. We don't know anything about what a salt water aquarium should look like but the first impression we had was that this was not a well taken care of tank.][Yes.][For a tank that had been serviced every 2 weeks we expected a better general state of cleanliness (inside and outside the tank) and less clutter and wiring hanging all over the place. We would love to know what an enthusiast opinion is of our tank before we have them come back out and continue service on the tank.[Here is a tank that gets serviced every 2 weeks:]View attachment 4831[If you have the time/inclination/resources contained wires will look way nicer. Flexo F6 wire wrap is my personal recommendation. I don't want to know what constraints are on the current service company, so I don't want to make negative remarks without knowing their constraints.]][We are considering rebuilding the entire tank enclosure so if you know of qualified persons who can do this please let us know. The walls are not FRP or other water resistant material but rather regular drywall. the drywall is flaking all around the tank and it is only a matter of time before the walls deteriorate all together in our opinion. Anything metal in the vicinity is rusting.[The rust isn't surprising. Plan to waterproof everything and/or add good ventilation to cut down on this. Treat it like it is near a shower stall, except no exposed metal unless you use lids and possibly a fan. Anything that is exposed to salt mist, even slightly, will rust eventually. Lids significantly cut down on this (some upsides and downsides, lids vs. no lids is a longer conversation).]The tank doesn't seem to be supported by any structural element but rather just a wood beam whose connection is hidden behind drywall.....it may not be designed to hold 1000+ pounds of water and tank. One side of the tank platform has settled 1/2" (don't know the age of the tank).[I was ok until you mentioned the 1/2" settling, that is a problem. Age doesn't really matter, that shouldn't happen. My 300 gallon freshwater tank is in the same spot it's been since I moved in just over 3 years ago and it is just as level as the day I set it. I expect that 10 years from now that will not have changed. Two common methods for built ins are:][1) Build an independent stand with leveling feet, and then put the drywall around it.][2) Build it in to the structure. It sounds like option 2 was used here, and that it may not have been sufficient. I do like to make the back of eurobraced tanks (how yours is made) 1/16" to 1/8" lower than the front, but it should be very consistent, and the same end to end. A full 1/2" is a concern as the bottom may also no longer be flat, which is a large flood waiting to happen.]][Less relevant as the conclusion in your case seems to be "not enough", but the "Rocket Engineer" stand design has worked well for many people and provides a good rough guideline for how sturdy a wooden framed stand should be.][And the maze of electrical wires all around the tank is a bit disturbing. We feel like we need to do something to prevent a major problem one day. If there was someone more knowledgeable bout this we would love to get a second opinion. [An hour with good wire wrap and some zip ties would go a *very* long way. Also, if you're willing to re-route things you should put that power strip somewhere that it cannot get wet in the event of a flood, drip, etc. Don't try to shroud it, just move it.]][This is an acrylic tank and for the most part other than surface scratching, the tank appears to be in good condition. Is it worth it to upgrade to a glass tank? I would rather keep the acrylic unless there was a compelling reason to switch. After you spend 18 hours grinding the coraline out, then repolishing the entire inside of a running acrylic reef you'll feel differently. To be more specific:[Both are workable, I prefer glass. With acrylic you want either situations that don't require scraping algae (planted freshwater, low light tanks, non reef tanks), or you want to stay on top of it regularly so that the coraline does not build up. You *can* polish acrylic underwater in a reef safe manner, but I think I can count on one hand the number of people I've met who have actually done so. It also scratches easier than glass. Technically it is possible to polish glass (been there done that too), but unless you want to invest dozens of hours doing so it's easier to replace the tank than try to polish a glass tank, running or otherwise.][[To summarize, IMO it's much easier to maintain a glass reef, but most people aren't willing to replace an entire aquarium just to not deal with it]. Personally I put lighting and flow higher on the priority list than the tank material. If you are in a position to do so I'd go glass. Opt for low iron if the clarity is important to you. Pay attention to where your algae scraper is with respect to the sand, don't knock your rock stacks over, and all will be well.]][The protein skimmer has a small leak in it that is leaking about 1/2 gallon a day. It sits in a basin that acts as a sump. We have to siphon it out at least once a day to prevent overflow.][I mistakenly assumed it was water tight from the photo.][1) Fix the leak.][2) Either way, this should be set up so that the tub drains back in to the display. I know other people will disagree with me on this, but in 95% of cases if you can't safely walk away from a reef for a week without worry for an occasional vacation then it's time to make some changes.][What does a a RODI system cost? Is this the same as a RO system that we would install for home drinking water? Will the tank require new plumbing to bring it's own water source to the tank? How is the salt added to the RODI water? [There's some more detail to this, but go to Bulk Reef Supply and look around. Check your local water Co., but you probably have chloramine rather than plain chlorine in the water. Different issues if you're on a well. Options for all budgets, but it is cheaper to make your own water than to buy it from a store, plus it's always there. I highly recommend setting yourself up with an auto shutoff valve, pretty much everyone without one ends up eventually flooding the place they make water if not (you can of course make your water in a sink or bathtub so that the "flood" just goes down the drain, but that wastes RO water and the filters aren't free). This requires a drain, but it doesn't need to be next to the tank (although that is really nice for maintenance). Common methods are moving water through the house with a hose/pump, 5 gallon cube jugs (easier than buckets), or a Brute garbage can on wheels (this one carries a risk of tip-over).]] [There is a clip on fan that cools the lights. It has also rusted from the salt water exposure. ] [Any advice or input would be very much appreciated. ][IMO you could make a very nice reef with your current setup and a few hours of cleanup, obviously that would cost a good bit less than replacing the entire thing. I would learn a bit about how it works, or at least keep the current setup until you have an idea of where you want to go. That will leave you much better versed in what to get if you do decide to replace it.]
jccaclimber
Premium Member
Posted by: LANNJO Here are a few more pics of the lights. Currently there is a T5 (one blue and one white) and an LED system but only 1/2 of the LED bar is working. In the the fluorescent light system there are 2 empty bays for 2 more T5 lights. Does it matter what color we use? The LED lights are very weak. Is it worth replacing those or converting the whole thing to a LED system? The housing for the lights does seem to be designed for a salt water environment because of the lack of corrosion on it. I took a few more pics of the protein skimmer as well just to show the leak and that the skimmate is not going to the top of the skimmer. The collection container for the skimmate (outside of the skimmer) has not been filling up....maybe that isn't a problem? said:
Currently you are spending $170 per month to service the tank... Are you willing to spend that amount per month to maintain it yourself... I ask because it is a good idea to set a budget as to what are you willing to spend to keep a tank before changing allot. You don't want to drop a few grand and then decide to get out.I also believe you need to have the system inspected and get a list of action items that need to be addressed. A second opinion from another service company or someone with allot of experience.Setup an action plan and include expenses for each step. There is allot you and your son can DIY and a tank is a great learning tool. Keeping a tank is allot of fun, but its also work to have a healthy tank.
The second opinion sounds like a great idea. We will wait for suggestions on who to call. But my son and I are more than willing to DIY as much possible, but hopefully servicing ourselves is not nearly as expensive as having it professionally serviced. Most of the items discussed so far seem to be within our skill level and time. A rebuild is not something we could do ourselves. We just need guidance on what to do, what options we should consider, and general idea of costs involved. Replacing this 48x28x28 tank is not in the budget right now but neither is fixing the surrounding sheet rock. But we feel like the sheet rock/support structure has to be addressed before we have a bigger problem in the future. So that would be a priority if the 2nd opinion were to also identify that as a problem. The replacement water is a concern because of how often and how much water this tank seems to need on a regular basis. But that problem seems to come with the territory and we will just have to deal with that in some way. @jccaclimber we are using Omega 1 marine flakes, one large pinch once a day (probably heaping 1 tsp equivalent) This forum has been very helpful so far. Thank you all!
jccaclimber
Premium Member
Posted by: LANNJO The second opinion sounds like a great idea. We will wait for suggestions on who to call. But my son and I are more than willing to DIY as much possible said:
jccaclimber
Premium Member
Now that we're to "later", the food.I won't address quantity of food until measuring water parameters, but I will address quality.While Omega 1 is a decent brand, flakes are a bit like like Pop-Tarts. Sure, if you check the nutrition facts label you will see that ten Pop-Tarts do provide 100% of your daily Vitamin A needs. Of course drinking a glass of milk, eating some carrots, and tomatoes is going to be better for you than the pop-tarts. Ok from time to time, but it shouldn't be your main dish every day, even if you mix it with a multivitamin.Above flakes are pellets, which are perhaps between a TV dinner and carry out pizza. Past that are various refrigerated and frozen foods. I have a mix that I make, although there are plenty of great options at your local fish store.Edit: Food is just one facet. Seeing as you already have the flakes I would use them up rather than throw them out, and I would also address the other issues before worrying as much about that.
Hello all, I wanted to update you on what has transpired in the last week since we last updated. Shortly after our last post, we had what appeared to be a leak from the aquarium area. We were sure this was coming from the tank itself because of where the water was showing up (behind my sheetrock). We knocked a hole in the wall to dry the area out and prevent mold and also to help investigate the source of the water. Basically the entire floor was covered in water one morning. The water has encroached into an adjacent room and saturated the carpet there as well. We estimate about 5 gallons was released. Fortunately for us JCCACLIMBER was willing to come look at our problem and help diagnose what our next steps should be. He was very very kind to lend us so much of his time on a weeknight. He also gave us a crash course on reef tankology. He came to the conclusion that it was likely our protein skimmer that was the culprit of the water leak. We were still skeptical and were convinced that we either had to abandon the hobby before we got started or spend an unexpectedly large amount of $ to rebuild the tank. JCCACLIMBER saw some things wrong with the tank but he didn't see anything that lead him to believe that our acrylic tank was leaking. He gave us some more advice and helped me budget what a rebuild would cost with a glass tank. The water levels had gotten so low, he recommended disconnecting the protein skimmer anyway until we could clean it out and to take that out of the equation of finding the leak. That weekend we took apart the protein skimmer and completely cleaned it out in a vinegar bath. Even after about 6 hours of cycling through there there was still a lot of hard white stuff that wouldn't come loose. But it was 95% better than before. We opted not to reintroduce the skimmer until we could get more salt water and top off water to bring the water levels back to normal. Today we filled the tank back up and checked the salinity which was normal. (We now own a refractometer thanks to JCCACLIMBER's advice)Tomorrow we will check for leaks and reintroduce the protein skimmer. So far so good. We have decided not to continue the service agreement with the company that was doing the bi-weekly servicing. We have purchased some basic cleaning equipment (scraper, brush, siphon, tube cleaner, test kit, refractometer, etc...) so that we can do the basic cleaning and testing ourselves. We did our first "DIY service" today and between my son and I, we did okay. It's hard work but easier than expected. We are certain with more experience we can handle it. It already looks a lot better than when we took possession of it 2 weeks ago. Our next steps are to 1. Remove the bio balls and add chaeto to the system for the filtration. Add dedicated light to the chaeto system2. Add polycarb cover3. Clean off surrounding walls and paint with waterproofing material. This isn't a great solution and won't prevent the damage from occurring but it should slow things down a bit especially with the cover in place. After looking deeper into the structure of the tank, I don't think the support structure is as bad as I originally believed. It could be better though but not an immediate concern. 4. Purchase and install RODI system in garage. We actually have a hose bib that is inside the garage. 5. Upgrade lights to LED. If you have suggestions on that I would love to hear some. Our budget cap is $800 total so I know I can't get the top of the line units. 6. Remove coral that we don't want7. Add new coral(maybe GSP, toad stool, duncan, or hammer)8. Trade out our livestock for some others (Maroon clown fish for ocellaris, Long Spine sea urchin for pincushion sea urchin, PJ cardinal for bangaii). Any beginner fish/coral suggestions would be appreciated as well. We would love to completely upgrade the tank to a glass tank as well but that is just too expensive for right now if there isn't a leak. We will live with our scratched up acrylic tank. If you think there are things we are not considering in our next steps please chime in. Thank you all for you sage advice so far and a HUGE thank you to JCCACLIMBER for his generous advice and time.
jenkinscrew
Premium Member
Sounds like you have a good game plan going. This is gong to be a nice tank for y'all to get going in the hobby and is great that your son is interested in helping you. I would go over to the build threads and start one for your tank so we can see the progress and you can ask questions there along the way so we can help when needed. So glad jccaclimber was able to come out and help you, we have some awesome members!Ricky and I use the LedZeal lights and seem to be working out well. You can just contact the company with your tank dimensions and they can tell you which light will fit your tank and a quote. When your ready for some GSP I have some you can have, just hit me up when your ready. Good luck and let us know if you have more questions!