My adventure into vodka dosing ...

[Renmar]

*** This originally started on other forums and thought it could be useful over here, so I have cut and copied all the information I have documented thus far**

I had waited for Murray's presentation on vodka dosing prior to starting my own adventure. I wanted to see what his presentation was all about! I'm glad I didn't miss it either, it was definitely something worth seeing.

I thought I would document my adventure into this new realm: vodka dosing. I'm excited, but very nervous. I'm hoping I don't have to do any of this :doctor: attention to my tank.

I will edit this post later to show you what my tank looks like now, and what corals I will be using for guides in my tank.

I have taken the assumption that I am going to be dosing for a 40gal system. Seeing as how my sump is 20gal tall and my DT is a 40gal breeder with approximately 30-50 lbs of rock in there. Any photos that I have taken have not been altered in any way, as I want a true representation of my system.

I'll also post later on what my parameters have been and etc.


Water Parameters: http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=tPlwHIoW3zUUVKcXcFUANmg&output=html
Dosing Regime: http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=t_ZalGaRVp-hPsQRW9pbMLQ&output=htm

I am using this link to guide me through my vodka dosing regime, along with the documentation that Murray has posted.

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2008-08/nftt/index.php

I started my little adventure into this dosing business at 4:15pm this afternoon. I calculated that I should be dosing .2ml a day for the first 3 days. At 4:15pm, 01/17/2010 I introduced .1ml to my sump. This morning at 2:30am, I will introduce the other half to my system. I am injecting the return area as it has a flow rate there due to the return.

I will be taking monthly photos of the entire tank. However, I will attempt to take bi-weekly photos of the corals I will be watching for indicators that something is going wrong.

Here is the vodka I am dosing McCormick Vodka Quadruple Distilled, 80 Proof.

alt="">

Here is the syringe that I am using to measure my dosage with as well:

alt="">

 

[Renmar]

As promised in my original post, I would get my water parameters posted for everyone to see. I have been using google documents to update my spreadsheet of water parameters. I have been using this to help me get started on my dosing.

http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=tPlwHIoW3zUUVKcXcFUANmg&output=html

I will be starting another spreadsheet with my vodka dosing regime. On it, I will include the times of my doses, the date, the amount of each dose. Now, I will be dividing my daily dose into two different doses as to not shock the system.

Here are the photos that I promised. I will not doctor any photos at all, as that would only hurt me in this process.

alt="">

Here are a few of the corals that I will be watching and updating on the thread, for you to see my results.

Pretty In Pink Millepora Frags

alt="">

ORA Red Planet

alt="">

Tri Color Plana

alt="">

 

[Renmar]

Now, I also thought I would take some photos of some problem areas in my tank as well. This is only the fair thing to do as well, as a far off distant photo won't necessarily show you a lot of my ugliness.

alt="">

alt="">

alt="">

alt="">

As time goes by, I will be updating photos of these problem areas as well. This way, we are all able to get a fair representation of how my tank responds to having a little something to get drunk off of :act-up:

 

[Renmar]

Someone on RC asked to see how my sump/skimmer layout was. So, I took a photo and updated that thread. I thought it would be important to show on here as well. Mainly, because people were concerned about the refugium during vodka dosing and the loss of micro algae. I currently have several strains of cheato in my sump, which you can see is completely full. Through my process, I will continue to keep updated photos of my refugia to show my status on the micro algae and if I have any die off and etc.

I have seen BikerFish's tank when he was vodka dosing, and had no problems with keeping his cheato healthy and growing. So, let's see what kind of response I get.

This is how much skimmate I have gotten in a 24 hour period. The wife emptied out the collection cup at approximately 2:00pm yesterday afternoon. This is how much skimmate I have collected since starting my vodka dosing.

Here's the sump:

alt="">

 

[Renmar]

So, I am venturing into my third day of dosing. My nerves have settled a bit, compared to where they were before. I kept having this reoccurring dream that I would wake up and all my corals would be melted. Some of this stemmed from fear that I would do something wrong, and for this I am realistic enough to know that if I follow the instructions that Nate and others have outlined then I am good to go. Now, does this leave a margin of error - sure it does. Could I still melt my tank, sure I could. The better question is, do I think I will? The answer is obviously, no I don't think I will.

With that being said, I have been looking at my tank thoroughly since I have started dosing. Paying attention to little details that some often overlook. I check out the polyp extention on my corals. I am checking for coloration of my corals, the cyano, some of the algaes and etc.

Now, this is what I can report for day 3 of vodka dosing. One my corals, I am definitely noticing more PE (polyp extention) on the corals. My blue tip tenius is definitely showing a little more blue. Now, the color variation on the blue tip could be due to me changing the lighting around and playing with it some, or not. Only time will tell.

 

[Renmar]

I am now a week into dosing and I have noticed a few things while dosing for the first week. I am now into dosing .9ml daily for week 2. I am splitting the dosing into .4 1/2ml between my am and pm doses. This will be done daily through-out week 2.

I have noticed a few things with the corals. I haven't noticed much coloration changes as of yet, for the corals from madfrags .. but it's still early in the game. I have been speaking with Murray a little bit on the phone, and he advised me of some amino acid's that I should probably start looking into for future use to help with coloration of the corals. He recommended looking into Pohl's Extra, which is made by Zeovit. It's definitely something I'm going to be looking into for sure.

Now, onto the corals. I will be getting some photos up (hopefully tomorrow) of what it is that I am seeing. I am seeing some growth already occuring on some of the corals, which is quite a bit of growth honestly. Especially on one of the Mille's that I got from madfrags. The coloration is not quite there, for whatever reason -- but I'm hoping that it does change.

 

[Renmar]

Alright, so I have been monitoring things closely and I am still noticing huge differences. My water column is becoming "clearer" aside from the sand that's in the column. I'm still playing with my flow some, so we'll see how it works out. I've been so busy lately, that I haven't had a lot of time to play w/ the flow.

Anyhow -- back to my results. I have tonight and tomorrow remaining for week 2 recommended dosage. I have some photos that I thought I'd post to give you guys an idea of how things are going. I tried getting some straight on from the side photos and then some top down photos.

Updated photos:

ORA Red Planet and Lemonade (will have to look up exact name)

alt="">

Blue Tip Tenius (two different views)

alt="">

alt="">

Green Slimer (this use to be more of a yellow color, it's starting to color up nicely)

alt="">

Unknown SPS

alt="">

Red Monti Cap (straight on and top down)

alt="">

alt="">

Pretty in Pink Mille

alt="">

Idaho Grape Monti

alt="">

Watermelon Milli (will need confirm name)

alt="">

Cesar, what's the name of this frag?

alt="">

Here's a top down photo, as best as I could get with the reflection of the lights along with the canopy on.

alt="">

As you can see, the colors are starting to change and brighten up. For some of these though, you can't see it if you are straight on with the coral at eye level. However, if you get up to the top of the tank and look down or get really close then you can see the colors starting to change and brighten up.

Tell me whatcha think so far! Excited to hear what your feedback is!

 

[Renmar]

@Matt wrote:

Fair enough. I know when I am looking at the corals from the front or side panels, you can see the corals coloring up. However, it's not until you're looking top down to see how much they truly have colored up.

Can you notice a difference though, Matt???

 

[Renmar]

@Matt wrote:

Thanks Matt for your honesty! I appreciate it. I am pretty happy with it for sure. It's been a fun adventure thus far, that's for sure.

 

[Renmar]

I have reached the end of week 2's dosing. I have now moved on to week 3's recommended dosage of 1.4ml per day. This will be broken up into .7ml per dosage to maintain an equal amount of dosing between the am and the pm.

The growth on my zoa's seems to be improving quite a bit. I don't know if this is because of the vodka or what, but it is definitely improving for sure. All the SPS are definitely showing quite a bit of a difference as well. I am showing some pretty good growth on a lot of the corals (you can definitely see some growth on the tips in the photos above).

I am still noticing some algae growth on the glass and etc., but it is nothing like what it was before. I am not getting as much cyano as I was before. I am fighting a detrius/food build up on the sand (as you can see in the photo) I ordered some clean up crew awhile back, needless to say not much made it. I am in the process of trying to figure out if I want a sand shifting starfish or a serpeant star to help with this.

 

[Renmar]

Is this a cyano outbreak or is it a bacterial bloom?

Could it be a bacterial bloom? Should I decrease my dosing??

Here is a FTS to show you where it is. I can take it out of the tank one day, not there during the day .. but at night .. it's there. I'm thinking it's a bacterial mass of some sort? Considering that it is only developing during the night?

alt="">

 

[melev]

Are you talking about the stuff on the sand? If yes, it is a result of the vodka dosing more than likely. If you can ramp it down a bit for week, you may see it fade away. I never let it concern me and just focused on the dosing, but if a coral was about to get smothered, it was turkey basted clean.

 

[Renmar]

@Marc wrote:

Marc - yes, I am talking about the junk on the sand. It appears to be cyano, but the color of it is not like what I have seen before. I try to keep the sand clean every few days. I was dowing 1.4ml a day, and bumped it down to 1.2ml and have seen a little difference. It's not coming up as fast as what it was in the tank. I am going to be getting something to move the sand around quite a bit though. I'm thinking that will help. My main concern is that if I don't do anything with whats building up, that it will actually smother all the benefits of having the sand bed in the first place? is that even possible? If it does get on a coral, I definitely turkey baster it.

 

[melev]

I think you are overthinking this. If the entire sandbed was coated with a blanket of cyano, that may be a problem. You can always rake together bad areas and siphon it out.

 

[Rick]

If it is Cyano it is just another bacteria and I do not see how adding sugars is not going to feed one bacteria and not another one.

 

[melev]

Correct. The carbon dosing will fuel cyano growth but at the rates described currently, I don't think the Vodka is a factor at all. Renmar may be hyper sensitive to what is going on with the scrutiny she is performing daily.

I've been dosing for 1.5 years now and have a tiny bit here and there, but if I didn't point it out you might miss it.

 

[Renmar]

@Marc wrote:

I also have a much smaller tank too. Therefore, I can't avoid seeing it. Considering I check everything a few times through out the day to make sure I'm not frying it. I know.. over paranoid but still.

 

[ImageX]

I'm on my 4th month of vodka dosing on my bc29... and the 54 corner i'm on a month from the start... i used it from the beginning of the cycle.. and no ammonia spikes or nitrite spikes... tank is cycling beautifully but the smaller tank i finally hit 0 nitrates but i must also add you should feed your fish more then normal cause your sps will need the extra waste to feed on.. vodka dosing is some serious stuff.. almost immediate greater pe when i did it.. but after a couple monthes it ramps down... or they're used to the dosing.. the weird thing is thou i still have some mild hair algae in the tank.. but vodka dosing is well worth it... and the growth is much better then before... i had a birdsnest frag that i had problems with triple in size after dosing for a month.. deathdealer came over and witnessed that... as he sold me the frag.. but my advice is to test the nitrates ever other day... once you hit 0 you then half dose that amount for example u end with 3ml then your daily dose after you hit 0 would be 1.5 ml.. also dose aminos with the dosing it helps with what carbon is taking away..

 

[Renmar]

@ImageX wrote:

I have always read 0 nitrates. I guess you missed that in my previous posts [smilie=devil.gif]. Which is why it is that I am having to take a look at things a lot closer to see how things are at in order to find out my maintenance dose. I still get some algae build up on the glass, so I know I'm not near my maintenance dose. But eh... that's just me.

I will be getting some amino acids here shortly, but haven't figured out which ones I am interested in. What amino acids are you using?

I am not having any hair algae issues, but more like cyano issues. Other than that, all is well. I think once I get a sand shifting goby, that would help keep things interesting on the sand bed. As it seems to be the only place in which it is that I am seeing the cyano build up at.

 

[Renmar]

Today, I finally broke down and purchased MicroBacter 7 by Brightwell (yes, Randy we all know how you feel about brightwell products ). I introduced 5 drops into my tank today and will continue to do so to see if I get any difference.

Also, I bought some of Brightwell's Amino Acid product and added a few drops to my tank to see if I get any difference on some of the other corals I have that don't wanna seem to change colors. I am hoping that there will be a difference.

I have also slowed down my increments in dosing, because I feel as though my tank wasn't liking it. I am still dosing, but I am doing .9ml a day vs what I was. In a week or so, I will go back up to the 1.2 that I was at. I just want to make sure my tank is getting everything it needs. In addition, I have increased my feedings to help compensate for the nutrient reduction. My tank seems to be fairing pretty well from all the changes. We have also purchased a sand shifting goby, he's keeping the sand nice and clean! Yay! No more cyano break outs!

Is it possible to have a low maintenance dose? For example 2ml for a 40gal tank? Any other 40gal tank owners have a low dosage as well or no?