DIY sump design feedback and questions

T

Tyson_Moncrief

Hi All,

I have a 50 gallon saltwater tank and I have decided that I want to upgrade my current filter to a sump with a refugium and I wanted to build my own. After about a month of research, I have finally come up with a design that I am hoping will work for my stand and tank. I wanted to get some feedback about what I have come up with so far and also have a couple of questions I was hoping to get answered.

[attachment=1]Sump-Design-1.jpg[/attachment]
[attachment=0]Sump-Design-2.jpg[/attachment]

My plan is to use a Reef Octopus NWB 110 protien skimmer http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/reef-octopus-nwb110-4-pinwheel-in-sump-protein-skimmer.html and a Mag 9.5 as a return pump

Couple of things about my design:

* The drawings are not to scale. I tried for a little while but just could not make it happen.
* I did not have enough depth in my stand to use a 20 gallon long tank so I opted for two 10 gallon tanks instead.
* The refugium will sit 4-6" higher than the sump depending upon how the plumbing lays out.
* The drain from the refugium to back to the sump looks a little weird. However, I wanted the depth of the refugium to be controlled by the height of the pipe instead of the hole I drilled in the tank in case I ever wanted to change it. Instead of drilling the sump, I decided to let the drain just run over the top of the sump again in case I ever needed to change heights or positions of the tanks, etc
* My display tank is not drilled and I am just not brave enough to attempt to drill it while the tank is setup. I found a simple PVC overflow design here http://www.aquariumlife.net/projects/diy-overflow/120.asp and copied it.
* I have also read about the importance of surface skimming and I wanted to provide a box that would run about half the length of my tank to skim the water off into
the overflow.
* I plan on using a 1" intake (drain) line and a 3/4" return line

QuestionsConcerns

1. my biggest concern about my design is the size of the return section. Is it going to be big enough? If not, I am going to have to pick out a different protein skimmer with a smaller foot print. If that is the case, any recommendations?

2. Should the refugium be fed from the intake line or the return line? I have seen it done both ways and dont know if there is an advantage of one over the other.

3. How big should the drain line be on the refugium? Would it be better to have 2 drain lines in case something gets stopped up?

4. should I worry about creating a bubble tower for the intake line?

5. I was reading Pete's plumbing thread and realized that I need a manifold because I want to be able to run a media reactor. Any suggestions on where this should be added in on the return line?

6. Any recommendations on what size acrylic I should use for the baffles and overflow box? I looked at my local Home Depot and they sell .093 (3/32 inch) and .220 (1/4 inch)

Any feedback would be great; this is the first time I have tried something like this and I want to make sure I am doing the right things to make my tank successful :)

Thanks,

Tyson
 
Why are you running the fuge from the Mag pump instead of just splitting the drain from the tank? Put a T and send half water to skimmer, half to fuge.

The fuge portion to return area looks a bit questionable. The pic does look weird and I don't really understand how you are going to maintain the flow. This area looks like a flood risk depending on the water levels in each 10 gal.

The overflow is a siphon/gravity controlled or a pump controlled?

The mag pump split should go back to the skimmer area, not in the return. Otherwise you'll have bubbles constantly in the return, then in the tank. The return area would be around 2 gallons, assume you will have some top off unit? That mag unit is physically big for this design. You could go with a smaller pump, assuming you would want 3-5x (150-250gph) turnover in the tank, and around 50 gph through the 10 gal fuge.

Personally I would scrap this two tank plan and either:
1) Drill two tanks to allow a more cohesive, less flood chance design.
2) Build a custom sump out of acrylic to match your dimensions.
3) I would drill the main tank since I've done it plenty. I hate these overflow devices myself. I would use a hang on back fuge/skimmer/filter before using overflow.
 
Not sure why the Loop down is between the refugium and return.. IMHO this would not work and you should just strait line gravity feed it..

Also with the 2 tank set up like you have ... i would do a from tank ... to 2 valved outputs... you can adjust water flow via the valves to the skimmer and the refugium areas as you wish..

the return pump to UV/Chiller or what ever then to tank. valved of course to also manage flow.


I am just commenting on the base of your idea... And i am not an expert but i see some major issues with refugium overflow with that down turn ...
 
Working on the same idea on a bigger scale. I have the refugium drilled to flow back into the skimmer area to avoid bubbles. The refugium is tapped off the pumps output as I have overachieved on the return pump.
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I like the idea of a add on fuge because of the size you can make it. Plumbing has been kicking my butt though:)


Jason
 
When you plan it out ...
Plan with no power ALL gravity feed ...

Use large enough pipe that Snails will not clog it up .
BUT when they do .. have the plumbing set up so that you can take it apart without emptying your tank ..


Valves allows you to adjust water flow while allowing you to also stop water flow.
Keep in mind the body of the valve inside is smaller then a pipe.. so you may want to go up a size then plumb back down..

good luck ...

You may want to visit duel sump members ..... we have a few.. and/or check build logs for ideas...
 
Thanks for the feedback everyone. It is back to the drawing board :)

Changes I will make:

* scrap the design of the refugium drain. I think I will handle the drain like what Jason has in his picture
* feed the refugium from the intake line instead of the return line and add a valve to the intake line to adjust flow.
* move the return pump split to feed the skimmer side of the sump
* move to a mag 7 pump
* looking for a skimmer with a small foot print to allow for a larger area for the return pump. I am thinking about a BM-NAC 3.5. It has a much smaller footprint and I should be able to gain an extra 5" in the return area.
* add some unions into the design for easier cleaning

@Charlie

I agree, I hate overflows, I have one on my tank right now and it give me problems constantly. I will be moving in about 6 months and my plan was to drill the tank before I set it up at my new place and use this overflow as a stopgap for the time being. The siphon would be gravity controlled and I planned to add an aqualift pump to holdrestart the siphon in case anything happens.

My next project, once this is done, is to set up and auto top-off system.

@Matthew

I didn't think about the about the inside of the valve being smaller; thanks for the tip.

I will try to get a new design drawn up and post it again.

again, thanks for all the help!
 
you and I need to visit as I currently am building a two sump tank....One sump will be a refuge / reactor barn. The other will contain the skimmer and the mag pump to lift the nice filtered water back to the tank. I have tried to eliminate as many turns and bends in my setup as possible as each bend takes away from the flow / water speed. I will be dry laying out the parts in a few days....watch my build for pics of it or I can send them to you as I build....but one thing I struggled with was drilling my sumps and putting bulk heads in them....do NOT use friction fit as your talking about a lot of water to be leaking....and it will leak when you wont be around...trust me on that.
 
@zaphod1 wrote:
you and I need to visit as I currently am building a two sump tank....One sump will be a refuge / reactor barn. The other will contain the skimmer and the mag pump to lift the nice filtered water back to the tank. I have tried to eliminate as many turns and bends in my setup as possible as each bend takes away from the flow / water speed. I will be dry laying out the parts in a few days....watch my build for pics of it or I can send them to you as I build....but one thing I struggled with was drilling my sumps and putting bulk heads in them....do NOT use friction fit as your talking about a lot of water to be leaking....and it will leak when you wont be around...trust me on that. said:
Sweet. I would definitely be interested in seeing pictures. I am a little worried about drilling the sump as well, but I have been told by many people that is very easy. What kind of bulk heads are you using?
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The same kind that go into the bottom of the aquarium....you can get them at Dallas North or on line...does not matter just remember thread both sides.
 
OK, second pass at a sump design. Let me know what you think. I have changed up how the plumbing is going to work and change the positions of the baffles by going with a skimmer with a smaller footprint to give me a larger return section. Also added a small manifold to run any reactors I may want to run.

[attachment=0]Sump-Design-1A.jpg[/attachment]
 
why dont you connect the sumps by bulkheads at the same level and make sure you pull close to the bottom so that you pull all the contaminants from the sump as with your design you might trap some near the bottom as it will not get much flow.
 
@zaphod1 wrote:
why dont you connect the sumps by bulkheads at the same level and make sure you pull close to the bottom so that you pull all the contaminants from the sump as with your design you might trap some near the bottom as it will not get much flow. said:
Something more like this? Will I have to worry about bubbles coming back into the return section? If so, could I just break them up with small pieces of rock or maybe a baffles 3" - 4" tall?

[attachment=0]Sump-Design-1B.jpg[/attachment]
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Can you swap positions of the tanks and put the fuge on the left hand side it drains into the skimmer section instead of the return?
 
@Mike R wrote:
Can you swap positions of the tanks and put the fuge on the left hand side it drains into the skimmer section instead of the return? said:
I would keep it as shown. While a skimmer couldn't collect all Copepods, it's generally good to go from fuge directly to return. Free food for your reef.
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Take the two bends out of the connection and that is how I have mine plumbed....there should not be that many bubbles at that depth...a rock would make the bubbles smaller and make them take longer to leave the sump...bigger bubbles...faster exit to the top....you can also control the flow by putting a gate valve on the pump out to the tank...NOT before or you will burn up the pump. That will also help with flow through the fuge and the sump as you want maximum contact with the good bugs in the sump and fuge.
 
@zaphod1 wrote:
Take the two bends out of the connection and that is how I have mine plumbed....there should not be that many bubbles at that depth...a rock would make the bubbles smaller and make them take longer to leave the sump...bigger bubbles...faster exit to the top....you can also control the flow by putting a gate valve on the pump out to the tank...NOT before or you will burn up the pump. That will also help with flow through the fuge and the sump as you want maximum contact with the good bugs in the sump and fuge. said:
Ok that all makes sense. The 3rd valve on my manifold would be used as a "bleeder" or "dump" valve to help control the flow back to the tank.

I think I have a design I am going to move forward with!

Thank you to everybody for their input!

I will post pictures in a couple of weeks once I get everything set up and plumbed.
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good to hear....I would have mine done by now but, the plumbing store was on one side of town and the I was on the other....only ice in between....grrrrrrr.
 
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