automatic water change system

R

rere85

Premium Member
Look at this and let me know what you think, still gotta provide a saltwater premixed source but still good system. My question is can saltwater removed from the tank get cleaned enough to be reused without losing the good stuff in it, ie calcium/trace elements? Could you store the old water and filter it back to totally clean? If you had a calcium reactor & protein skimmer and what ever filtration needed, would that make old water be reusable?

http://www.genesisreefsystems.com/products.php?cat=9
 
There really isn't a way to reuse saltwater water to put back in the tank.
 
If you filter it, you will be stripping it of all the trace elements you need.
You would spend more on supplements than saltwater.
And I am not sure you can remove nitrates with a filter.
 
Doesn't calcium reactor add trace elements back to water?

What else is lost that needs to be put back in that's good, that calcium Reactor wouldn't do?

If all this industry of filtration doesn't clean the water in out tanks then why can't it clean old water not being polluted anymore by being remove from tank?

Trying to think out of the box here.
 
i understand the direction you are going, but even major aquariums and institutions with thousands, upon thousands of gallons of water simply do water changes. if it was a fish only system then you might be able to extend how long you go between water changes, but if it was feasible to recycle old water, the big guys would do it. also, you wouldnt really remove water just to clean it, you would hook things up to the tank to clean it continuously but you would also need to test it very regularly. it would be just like a pool does with a large sand filter for instance. we did a behind the scenes tour at the georgia aquarium, and they have huge sand filters (brown thing taller than the person in the first pic, skimmer is on the right hand side of this same pic.) and they get giant pallet sized bags of salt for their water changes.

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@Wes wrote:
i understand the direction you are going said:
So does the California Academy of Sciences. I toured there system behind the scenes and they use some natural seawater mixed with instant ocean. I don't know what they do with their old saltwater but reusing it was not an option.

Here is a thought outside of the box - distill it and use it to water the yard. Then you could sterilize the salty residue, package it and sell it!
Click to expand...
 
I do not want to believe that I know more than professional aquariums but there was a time that current filters hadnt been invented yet and aquariums werent necessarily the ones that came up with the ideas either.
Those are impressive filter systems, but I would argue it says that even the big guys know that filtration improves the water. So the reason we currently replace water is because filtration cant get to zero so to speak in a starting point when in use in the aquarium. So if we removed the water from the contaimenants (fish/corals), surely the water can be replinished? So I just want to know what cant be fixed by filtration/reactors,because every water parameter problem has a million companies selling something to fight it in the system. Is it logical to say either the filtration systems dont work, which I think few people believe or have someone just hasn't invented the complete water replinishment system? Talking about pools, would adding chlorine to the removed water not fix alot and then the chlorine is removed before reusing? What cant be fixed? All drains lead to the ocean right? The ocean is naturally replinished, isnt recreating that basically what we are tryin to do?
 
The ocean disperses contaminants....that's a huge water mass. Let's say you could get all the pollutants out of the used sw, the amount and cost of supplements to get it back to "normal levels" in my opinion would cost way more than just replacing a portion of the water with a fresh, trace element rich mix. Not to mention the trouble it would cause trying to get all the levels correct. One would probably end up with a "limiting factor" problem, meaning one element would be insufficient, and would never know what it was. Not to mention there isn't a test kit for all trace elements nor a complete understanding about what all trace elements are needed or the mechanism at which they are beneficial.

What a great conversation! Let's keep it going.

TB
 
if you are set in stone then recycle your water then do it, you can be the pioneer. Document what you do maybe you will be the inventor of a new filtration method.
 
Ok I'll be the inventor. Justing looking for some tips. Off the bat, I would isolate water with no light,protein skimmer, calcium reactor, and maybe Biopellets? What am I missing? I have digital aquatics ph, calcium probes and could do alk and mag tests when those are on good readings. I would think you could get a repeat time period it takes to make x amount of water high enough in calcium if it's only being added not being used. As far as a missing trace mineral or something, why isn't it replicating nature having the combination of fish poop and calcium reactor media that is suppose to be everything corals need to grow. If not then maybe this is just a route to go with fowlr and nps tanks.
 
The ocean gets traces mineral from rivers, erosion, and decomposition. I am sue more ways, those are just off the top of my head.
 
if you are going to replenish all that outside your tank why even bother with water changes why not do all that stuff in the tank. do heavy filtering in the tank and just replenish what is taken out. do wet skimming, and nitrate and phosphate removal
 
To do it properly, because it is done, you need to buy a test for each of the following and replenish them as necessary. Each mineral is essential for balanced water chemistry, natural salt water has each and we want to aim for these mins and maxs. Watching calcium, alkalinity, or magnesium only is not enough. These are the levels the salt mix I use has.



Mineral
NSW
Min
Max
 
ph
8.5
8.4
8.6
 
Alkalinity
3.5 meq/L
3.2 meq/L
3.8 meq/L
 
Calcium
422
409
435
 
Magnesium
1,336
1,296
1,376
 
Strontium
8.4
8.1
8.7
 
Bicarbonate
214
208
220
 
Borate
15
14.5
15.5
 
Bromide
65
63
67
 
Chloride
19,000
18,430
19,570
 
Iodide
0.06
0.0582
0.0618
 
Sulfate
2,655
2,575
2,735
 
Potassium
380
369
391
 
Sodium
10,500
10,185
10,815
 
Cobalt
0.0004
0.00039
0.00041
 
Copper
0.0003
0.00029
0.00031
 
Iron
0.01
0.0097
0.0103
 
Manganese
0.002
0.00194
0.00206
 
Molybdenum
0.01
0.0097
0.0103
 
Rubidium
0.12
0.1164
0.1236
 
Zinc
0.01
0.0097
0.0103
 
 
On the issue of why take the water out to replenish it. I agree all the filtration and reactors could just be done in system but you would never get to zero or perfect parameters that way because you always have contaminants (fish/corals). But I do agree that many Biopellets and other filter claims to reduce water change needs. So maybe we are close to being able to hold most parameters without water change.

So that leads to the biggest unknown of what can't be for sure filtered/reactored is the trace elements. Wes has a good long list of some of the many trace elements there are but again if those are the ones needed and a calcium reactor provides those then aren't we good? Does anyone know that reactor media doesn't provide one that a salt mix does? Also if the factory made salts have all you need there, why can't a cheap powder of these not be sold. Don't want it to be that way would rather count on reactor media but it's really the same, buy salt or buy reactor media. Just one way requires alot more work.
 
The problem wouldn't be getting them, it is testing your levels, and adding the correct amount of each. If you can find a list of trace minerals in a calcium reactor media that is supposed to be added to the water then it might help, but again it will not eliminate the need, and it is unlikely to replace everything.
 
Here was a good link that explains alot about trace elements, its quite a read and not all answers are there but it is from a "Dr." and not just some reefer like me...

http://www.reefs.org/library/talklog/c_bingman_101799.html
 
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