a few things that bug me as a zoa keeper... secrets revealed

[Allen Michelle]

I don't know if you sps people also experience these problems... but...

1. Zoa naming...

I see so many of our fellow hobbyists fall into traps of over paying for zoas that have been wrongly named.... Nuclear Green palythoas for example, I have met at least 3 people here on the forum who paid $10/polyp for nuclear greens, when they turned out to be the $5/colony green button polyps... That's just awful. Yes I know zoaid.com updates their site with new names, and we make mistakes, even myself, but shame on the seller if the sale was intentional...
Sometimes I just feel like jumping in a sale forum and correct some of the mistakes in naming... but then it's not very nice, and of course some people would jump in and start yelling about thread trashing and stuff... but guys, check Zoaid.com to confirm before overpaying for the wrong zoas!

2. Sudden increase in pricing because of a pretty picture...

A few years back it was the PPEs that jumped in price because of Blane Perun's picture and ebay auction. Well, good for him that he's donating the $$ to help kids.
But taking purple hornets for example... It didn't come about until the ebay auction and its pretty picture... and they've been around, known as "blue eyed dragon"
They come from Florida in all shades of the same color. First of all, the purple may not remain the same in your tank after a period of time, depending on the lighting and the amount of flow and nutrition in your tank, I had 3 colonies of it and they've all morphed to different shades under different conditions...
and IMO they are not worth $200/polyp like what they say on the websites (may be they are now.. but not a month or two ago...)
but like I said... they're not that rare, and not that hard to get.... (yes when I'm ready to frag, I will share them... but pls don't pm me now)
and honestly.. they're really not as bright and pretty as lets say.. AOG? which is about $10/polyp...
This is like if all of a sudden someone took a pretty picture of a rock anemone, and then 1/2 of the hobbyists all of a sudden want them, then rock anemones will start costing as much as a rose bta, or even more.
But know this: Florida palys are not easy to keep alive and propagating in the long run. They need certain lighting and may be nutrients to keep them thriving. It took me a lot of trials and errors to get them to the right happy place...

3. Dip your zoas!!!

I can't emphasize it enough!!! dip them dip them dip them! not just in freshwater (that doesn't do very much...) and not just in iodine
do a search and you can find multiple ways of treating zoanthids. Why spend so much $$ and then have fungus or nudis eat them away?
And zoas do get sick... some of then quite hard to cure. a few things to watch out for is when the polyp is dark, the stem is very skinny, not all polyps opening up, something is wrong. Don't think you're getting a good deal when you see one.. you may end up with much more than you expect

4. Yes, zoas need good lighting too...

it has always been said that zoas go on the bottom of your tank while the sps on top.... zoas need less lighting, etc. Well you know what? in my tank, they get as much lighting as the sps, and they LOVE it! How do i know? well, they grow!
mine are 250W MH lights about 6~8" directly under the light bulb for palys, and then on the sides are the smaller zoas. 1200 Maxijet blowing right next to them. I've tried so many different tanks and different ways... do a search on Blane Perun's website and he has explanations on what to do with different zoas.


I hope this will help some of you non-zoa nuts with keeping zoas propagating in your tank so more will be available to other members ... puts some stress off me too I guess

 

[DaveG99]

thanks for the tips!

 

[txtick]

Thanks Michelle, great post!

 

[Wes]

some great insight and information. i too find it kind of crazy how trends start with pricing, but that is with all things in this hobby. someone will get set on this one thing being great and prices will sky rocket. i really wish sometimes i had the resources and ability to have grow out tanks for all this crazy stuff and just blow it out for a decent price. care is another strong point, its amazing how many people dont even do the small things or have stuff available for a problem. i dont have everything and dont know everything, ill be the first to admit that, but i try to quarantine as i can and i have several different solutions in the cabinet next to my tank for dips and care. hope you keep up the great work with the zoas, enjoy it and grow them all!

 

[shopgirl]

I have come to love zoa's, and although I don't have any right now, those are great tips. They remind me of little flowers in the water! Those are excellent tips and I always read what you have to say on the topic of zoa's....imo, this should be 'stickied' for future reference.

 

[Brandon]

Great post!

 

[justintabor]

Great post, Michelle. I agree with most of your points. I must disagree, however, with your point about checking ZoaID.com.

While I do frequently use ZoaID to find names for what I have, it can't be considered an authority on identification. There's no scientific approach to the naming of zoas. Someone just makes something up. If I have a zoa colony that's solid brown, and I decide I want to call them "package relocation engineers", I can do that. And I can post it to ZoaID.com. So, by your logic, my brown zoas are now officially PREs? Anybody can submit a photo or name to ZoaID and it will be posted there. There's a photo on ZoaID right now of a zoa with David Hasselhof's face in the middle of it.

And my issue isn't really with that particular website, but with the naming of zoas in general. If all of this is just made up, there's no such thing as an incorrect name. Anybody can call a zoa anything they like.

My advice for buying zoas -- Don't worry about what they're called. Buy them based on if you like how they look.

 

[Allen Michelle]

zoa naming must have a standard, and most of us zoa collectors refer to zoaid naming (most of them) as the standard.

Although the names on zoaid is not a scientific way to name zoas, but it provides a great reference to know exactly what others are refering to, or as close as possible. It's like if I say apple, you know I'm refering to the red fruit. But it's a problem when I tell you apple and give you an orange instead because I like calling my apples oranges...

and as far as misnaming the zoanthids, the problem becomes the cost. Like I stated before, a common mistake is selling green button polyps as nuclear greens.

Another problem with not following the accepted standard in naming zoas is that if I sell a frag of lets say eagle eyes, and call it super sunshines or something like that and sell for 2X as much, then buyers who don't know any better would be overpaying for eagle eyes thinking that it's a new zoa never seen before. Then when one of the buyers grow them out and sell online on other forums, other hobbyists would feel like the seller is trying to rip them off because most other people know those as eagle eyes. (And there is another paly that's called Sunshines and it's quite rare, it would also mislead other buyers)

anybody is welcome to submit zoas to zoaid.com but if those zoas already exist, it would likely be rejected. And besides, zoaid states clearly that their website is for reference only! not for advertising zoanthids so that they can be sold at higher prices.

 

[justintabor]

@Allen Michelle wrote:

Why? I think some sort of standard would be great if it was possible, but zoa morph based on conditions. Therefore, an "eagle eye" in my tank doesn't look the same as an "eagle eye" in yours. But somehow they're both still "eagle eyes"? If I frag some zoas and sell them, they'll morph based on the conditions of the tank they are put into. And then that frag grows into a colony and gets fragged and sold, and they morph based on the conditions of the tank they are put into. So, many generations down the line, odds are that they will not look the same as the original colony.


@Allen Michelle wrote:

You say "most of them". So ZoaID.com is the standard. But only sometimes...


@Allen Michelle wrote:

I agree 100%. It is a great reference, but that does not make it the standard.


@Allen Michelle wrote:

As with any commodity, the market dictates the value zoanthids. A zoa is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it. If someone is willing to pay $100/polyp for Blowpops, then that's what they're worth.


@Allen Michelle wrote:

There is no standard. Any schmuck can post bad information to ZoaID.com. But hey, it's on the internet, so it must be true. :wink:


@Allen Michelle wrote:

If the buyer doesn't know any better, he shouldn't be buying. And if he's willing to pay twice as much as the market dictates, then that is what they are worth to him.


@Allen Michelle wrote:

The David Hasselhof one has been there for at least 4 months.


@Allen Michelle wrote:

Again - Any commodity is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it.


I hope you realize that I don't mean any of this disrespectfully. I just enjoy a good debate sometimes...

 

[Allen Michelle]

then the problem becomes whether you are okay with seeing fellow dfwmas'ers getting ripped off by over paying.. and it bothers me to see that. I feel responsible as a fellow dfwmas'er to educate my fellow dfwmas'ers rather than ripping them off and lying to them.
and as far as morphs, yes zoa colors morph constantly, which at that point they should be named "eagle eye morph" for they are still the same zoanthids. Zoa names don't only tell the coloring, but also their origin and how to care for them. when selling an eagle eye morph instead of an unknown super sunshine or something like that, you are also helping your buyers know what kind of condition they should be placed in, how fast they grow, etc because they are still eagle eyes nonetheless.

 

[justintabor]

@Allen Michelle wrote:

Frankly, I'm offended by your implications. There's a difference between purposefully deceiving someone and charging more than you think something is worth. Let's say I post an ad to sell some Tub's Blues for $20 and I don't post a picture. If someone jumps on that deal, and when they come to pick them up, I give them some random brown polyps instead, that's a rip-off. But if I sell the same Tub's Blues for $50, and someone wants to buy them, there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. It's called a free market economy, and it's the American way.


@Allen Michelle wrote:

By that logic, unless your zoas all came directly from the original mother colony, you have to label them all as "morphs".

 

[txmcse]

@justintabor wrote:

Awwwwwwwwww. Someone a bit touchy? I agree with the original post. As a novice i want someone to help me prevent getting caught up in fraud. Yes, there are cons out there. Trust me... I know.

Thanks Allen!!

-Tracy

 

[crawfish aka Bill]

thanks for the post./////////////////

 

[tnn1567]

Michelle,

Well done in your post!!! I am one of those reefer that will pay $200 a polyp because I just want to have. Is it a rip off? Yes. I am glad that I lost the bid when I bid $200 for the purple hornet which the bid went over $300 dollars for just ONE polyp. :shock:

 

[myownkeeper]

so if not all of my zoas on a rock are opening, then i should dip them in what?

 

[Allen Michelle]

@myownkeeper wrote:

check here

http://www.dfwmas.org/Forums/viewtopic.php?t=30746

 

[chappy]

@txmcse wrote:

Awwwwwwwwww. Someone a bit touchy? I agree with the original post. As a novice i want someone to help me prevent getting caught up in fraud. Yes, there are cons out there. Trust me... I know.

Thanks Allen!!

-Tracy"]

non member with 16 post says what?

 

[hegi]

I appreciate Michelle trying to protect members. I don't what she said that would offend you. It's a fact that people that post on this site try to rip others off. Most of the time as far as I know it is non-members. Scott has talked about this many times in the past. She qualified her statement by saying that she wasn't talking about individuals who thought they had the "nuclear green" and was selling it for what they paid for it. I "frankly" don't understand why you'd be upset about what she said.

 

[justintabor]

I'm not upset, just offended.

Are you saying you wouldn't be offended if someone implied that you were "okay with seeing fellow dfwmas'ers getting ripped off by over paying"?

 

[Allen Michelle]

Sorry Justin...
Not trying to offend you, but this thread isn't about you.. it's about helping other members on this forum to keep zoas more successfully and warning others about overpaying...
There really isn't any reason for you to post here just to debate some of my suggestions and advise. Please refrain from posting your opinions which takes this post down a different path.
Thanks