Sump baffles - Niagra falls

M

Maldivan

[Heres a question for all you sumpoligists out there. I fired up my sump today and am having a hard time controlling the flow into my return area. Heres the way the sump is set-up. Its a standard 29 gal thats divided into 3 areas :

Area#1 - drain area from bulkheads: 1.25" PVC thats draining into a 7"x7" bubble trap thats 14" tall and is approx 1/2" off the floor of the sump. The water drains out of the bottom into an area approx 7"x 8" x 16"tall. From here it drains over the 1st baffle - then under the 2nd baffle thats 1" off the floor of the sump and then over a 3rd baffle into the fuge.All baffles are 16" tall.

Area #2 - The Fuge is a simple 12" long fuge that is divided by 1 each 16" tall baffle. From here it drains over a 16" tall baffle and into the return.


Area #3 - The return. This is where my problem lies , after flowing over the top of the 16" baffle its falling about 6" and creating mega bubbles,of course the pump eats them- slices -dices into micros and send it back into the display.

What can I do to rectify this situation?

Can I just add another baffle between the return and the 1st baffle and raise it off the sump floor 1" forcing the water down?

OR can I just take out the last baffle between the fuge and the return and reduce its height from 16" to say oh..... 8"? Just enough to allow for sand in the fuge and let the water flow over it.Then the water level will raise above it and there will never be any water falls. I dont know if this will work and what will regulate the height of the water at this point.

Any help is appreciated. The sump is out now and readsy for mods!

Andy]



Edited By Maldivan on 1090964552
 
[How does one accomplish this? The water level is around 10" in the return area , the baffles at 16" and falls over gah - mega bubbles!. LOL I dont know how to raise the water in the return. Im really new to the sump desingn arena.

Thanks for the reply !

Andy]
 
[Andy you can just simply put more water in it till the return area is about as high as the baffle. When you have evaporation in the tank it will only come from that last compartment so the level will drop and that is where you can add your topoff.
When my return compartment starts to get low I have mega bubbles too.]
 
[god Im a dork........................


Figured I woulda known that from my last sump. Sheesh I feel like a tard! Thx amanda :) Ill try it when i get home. You know i designed it that tall so I wouldnt have to add water everyday...sheeeeeeeesh. LOL!

Andy]
 
[How large is your return section and what kinda return pump are you running? My return section is small and my pump wanted to pull lots of water out which let the water fall to far. I throttled the pump back a bit (which I want to change. I'd rather divert the extra flow back into the sump when I get a chance). I also had evaporation issues since the return section was small. Now I have an auto topoff which makes life easier.
HTH]



Edited By 737mech on 1090967074
 
[LOL! No problem Andy :p If the pump is pushing too hard the way George described then you may just need to add a T and ball valve to divert some water back like he said.
Mine is setup this way and I can post a pic if you need it.]
 
[My return area is quite large since the one on my 55 was so small. Its 12" long by 16" tall x 12" wide. The only thing about filling it up is wheres all the water go when the power goes out. I only have about 1" to play with when I pull the plug , the water rises to the top of the baffle w/ about an inch to spare. If I filled the return area up with water , and I lost power she would definantly overflow.
Ya post the pic I'd like to see it. Ill probably end up doing the "T" with the ball valve and return water to the fuge. grrr more plumbing issues! The Pump is the new Eco pump made by Sen, flows 1564 GPH and is very strong and very quite! I do like the pump for sure! Anyway to stop the water from flowing back into the sump? I have the return nozzles just at the surface of the water atm. Thanks all for the help, you have to remember your dealing with the plumbing challenged when you talk to me. Now if we talk about 747's,DC-10's, or DC-9's..well Im your man :) ... pluimbing? LOL Im a tard!

Andy]
 
[It would or could change the baffles soo that it runs under the first, less than 1"space, then over the second, then under the third, maybe a 1/2" gap. You would get rid of the waterfall into the sump area where the bubbles are going into the pump and show up in the tank. I also add some rock rubble in between the second and third. The water going down through the rock not only helps break up some of the last air bubbles, it also is very good spot to get some extra bacteria and life growing. This way you can keep the water in the return at a safe level to prevent overflowing the sump, in case of a power outage.]



Edited By Rick on 1090985961
 
[What do you guys think of drilling a few (1-?) 3/8" holes along the bottom of the last baffle? This would allow the pump to pull extra water and keep the water level higher in the pump chamber, and lower overall (same volume, different distribution so it won't overflow).

If you have all the water go under the last baffle, you may get a surface skin forming over the baffles. This is dead space where water is not really flowing or breaking the surface since most is hugging the top of the baffle as it flows over the center one, creating a stagnent layer of nutrient rich water.

Having holes would lessen the flow over the top, keeping the water more attached to the baffle, have less a fall, and still prevent the surface skin in the sump.]
 
[Andy, try this:

Turn off your pump, and let the tank drain. When all the water has stopped flowing, check the water level in your sump. Now pour in even more water. As much as you can stand, then stop. :p

Now, turn on the pump. When the water in the return section no longer fluctuates, draw a line or mark that water level with some masking tape. That is your maximum fill level. That way, if you ever top off with too much water, and you see the water is higher than that line, you know for a fact that the sump will overflow due to lack of available space.

Let us know where that line is located, and how far the water has to fall to reach it. Once I know that, I can probably give you another solution to stop the bubble problem.]
 
[Any time you have waterfalling into the area where the return pump is, you are going to have air bubbles sucked into the pump. Eliminate the waterfall there and your battle is half over.]
 
[Hey mark - marc - Rick - Amanda ( through pm's )

Thx for the suggestions they are deeeeeeeeeeeeply appreciated! : Heres where Im at atm.

The sump is out becuase of the baffles that broke loose as I described to you in my PM's. I have the opportunity now to make any modification thats needed .Do they make long applicators to get in tight areas! After re- measuring my baffle heights are 15" instead of 16 like I thought, This gives me 3" to the lip of the top of the tank. I was thinking :

#1 I could LOWER the last baffle to say ...about 12" instead of 15".I marked the height of the water in the return area and it was at 10" Dunno what it will do if I lower the baffle height to 12" or so.I know if I lowered it I could fill up the return area w/o the fear of any overflows in case of pwoer outage.


#2 I could still install a baffle after the last one keeping it off the sump floor 1" forcing the water down.

#3 Place a ball after pump and throttle it back some. Should I use the "T" and route the water back to the Fuge?

#4 Have a Captain and Coke and get in-touch with my inner self!

Andy]



Edited By Maldivan on 1091033379
 
[Just Pm'd ya Andy :)


1. Skip it
2. Go for it, and I think I will too :nod:
3.If you do this, you need a T for the water to go somewhere, anywhere - you do not want to just slow your pump down.
4. Best plan yet.....After the sump is back in place! :beerchug: LOL!]
 
[Not sure what brand of return pump you're using - but from my experience I've seen that using a foam filter screen on the intake fitting of a submerged pump eliminates about 99% of the microbubbles - with minimal impedance to water flow. If you've got a pump thats adaptable to one of these I'd try that and see how it goes.]
 
[Jim's idea could work, but you've got to swap it out regularly and rinse. Otherwise you'll have a nitrate making issue.

To secure the middle baffle, glue it first. Then after it is secure, glue the outer baffles around it. You might have to take a break for a couple of hours while the first piece sets, which allows you that drink. :beerchug:]
 
[This pump does have one - but the flow coming over that 15" baffle and dropping 5" makes it look like Niagra Falls ! Its not just trickling over the baffle - Believe me when I say its flowing over the edge of it a good 2" , then dropping down 5" :( into the return area.Im going to add a baffle after the return one and keep it off the floor a few inches, this hopefully will force the water down into the return area. Ill let you know how it comes out.

BTW Marc- In my bubble trap how far should my PVC pipe go down into the water? At 1st I had it going like 6" into the water . What depth should this be?

Andy]



Edited By Maldivan on 1091069616
 
[The gap at the bottom should be maybe an inch. That should give enough room for the water to flow under. The less gap the better, that way the water has to go under and give time for the air bubbles to rise back up. The bigger the gap the easier it is for the air bubbles to go under with water. I would make the top of that baffle level with the one behind it that the water is falling over. With gap being small enough and the top being level with the one behind it. You would build up some water volumme in that chamber, therefore the water would not be falling as far. And you would be creating less turbulence, thus less bubbles. With the top not being any higher than the one behind it, if water ever did not flow under the wall,(clogged). The water would just build up and flow over that baffle to the return pump. HTH]
 
[Andy, it can go about 1" under water, to avoid the plumbing from burping. Or you can have it right at the water level, assuming your bubble tower is tall enough to contain the salt spray.]
 
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