Revisiting phyto and Miracle Grow

Can someone 'in the know' expand upon growing phyto with the latest information we've had. At the last meeting if I remember correctly, Miracle Grow is a bad option for healthy phyto'.

I'm just hoping we can update some of the information here on this theory and I am not the one to do it, but I want to start a batch soon with the best information we have right now.

Thanks,
 
The f/2 formulated (that is half strength f divided by 2) is the ideal food. Miracle Grow will work as a substitue, but may contain metals and 2 batches may not be the same. Since the measure of MG is so little the idea that you would use a bottle in a less than a year is slim and none. So the idea of batches being different, to me, is not an issue.

I used MG and followed Marc's recipe and have been producing succesful batches. Since the last meeting I have started again by ordering f/2 and a new culture from Florida Aqua Farms. IT has been cooking for 13 days now and personally my older culter was darker green. But I will split it and continue with this method.
 
Since the meeting I attempted 3 times before I was successful starting and keeping a culture going. I now have both nannochloropsis and tetraselmus cultures growing. I started using miracle grow and tap water and failed every time. I then started using f2 and sterilizing my tap water. I'm now cultivating my third batch. Odds are it was due to the water, or could it have been the miracle grow? Can't say for sure. Many people have success with miracle grow although I don't know if it's sterile. I personally feel better using f2. One thing for sure in my mind though... I will always start out by sterizing my tap water and making sure everything is as sterile as possible to avoid crashing.
 
Great! I ordered a culture kit from them and it includes the fertilizer which I hope is the f/2. If not it will still get me started.


personally my older culter was darker green. But I will split it and continue with this method said:
I see the lust for a darker green coloration a lot. Is this really an indicator of a 'better' batch or is this one for Myth busters!?
 
Darker green just means more cells. I guess I should clarify. My older batch had ben split abd bubbled for a lot longer than 10 days. Hence the "darker green" or higher cell density. I will measure this latest batch and post back her with the results. But the last batch that I put in the fridge had a cell density of around 19.2 million cells per ml if it is nannochloropsis and 64.1 million cells per ml if it was nannocloris.

BTW - I also got a measure guage from Florida Aqua Farms.
 
I followed Marc's recipe and here is my first full 2 liter batch. I'm quite pleased with the results . It took 9 days to get this dark . Started with half a disk from FAF.
 
I started a batch from a bottle of nanochlorpsis that I got at Fish2morrow. I used MG and tap water (North Fort Worth) but I was using a bulb with only 400 lumens and it started crashing. I threw a 24" hood light I had with a 50/50 bulb and it's starting to grow after about 7 days. I am shaking it up after every 3 days.

I missed the meeting about the MG, what affects could there be with it. If it's working for me is there a reason I would switch to F/2?

How is Tetraselmis affected by the MG and tap water. I've heard it's more forgiving. I wanted to add 10% Tetra to the Nano once the batches are done and I store it. (Just in case somebody hasn't heard, I was told Tetraselmis will over take the Nanochloropsis).

TIA, Tim
 
Tim, From one of the meetings we had Tetra is more difficult to culture. Requirements are more strict. In addition I believe the Tetra takes over Nano statement might be backwards.

Nanochloropsis is the more prevalent phyto. It is hardy and easy to culture. That is why everyone and their dog sells or cultures it in some form. (Just google it if you do not believe me.)

The main issue/concern with using MG is the metal content. This could be a potential hazard to our tank inhabitants. The F/2 formula does not suffer from this problem.

Here is a very interesting article on the topic.

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/aug2002/breeder.htm


Anyway congrats on your culture.
 
@slallen wrote:
Have you read the ingredients on a F2 bottle ? It contains cobalt, zinc, iron, manganese and copper . I just hope it's not enough to add up to a problem or the phyto converts them to non toxic forms.
 
@rckrzy1 wrote:
Have you read the ingredients on a F2 bottle ? It contains cobalt said:
Had this same conversation with Autumn Hoff of FAF.

When I placed the order for the starters and other stuff we discussed MG and she launched into a long diatribe about copper and inconsistent grade of chemical, yada, yada.

When I recieved the order and read the ingredients I called her again. Somehow, it was all going to be ok to feed all the same metals since I was feeding the f/2 to rotifers, and then the rotifers to clown fry. Never did get how feeding metal in MG was any different than feeding metal in f/2.

I guess the rotifers are smart enough not to eat metal in f/2 - but confused when in the MG.
 
I believe it it probably a consistency issue. Then again I am certainly no expert. When I did grow phyto I started with MG.
 
Finding studies of efficacy is not difficult but I don't have access to a library which has full access to the studies (would love to see the chemical analysis phyto - does it take up the metals?).

Anyone attending a university with access who might be able to get some of these?:

http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=1940819


http://tinyurl.com/3dmp62

Abstract
Growth, proximate composition and chlorophyll a content was estimated in static cultures of Isochrysis aff. galbana (clone T-Iso) to compare the quality and quantity of the biomass produced with an agricultural fertilizer medium versus f/2 medium. Culture of microalgae was done with controlled temperature, air flux of 4.5 l min?1, salinity of 33? and an irradiance of 110?3 ?mol m?2 s?1. Daily samples from the cultures were taken to estimate cellular density, proximate composition and chlorophyll a content during 7 days. Mean cellular density from samples with f/2 medium and with agricultural fertilizer were similar (no significance at P?0.05), and mean growth rates of 0.62 and 0.61 doubling per day, respectively. Maximum similar values of protein content of 7.3 and 7.6 pg per cell were estimated on the 5th day in f/2 and agricultural fertilizer medium, respectively. Carbohydrate and lipid content decreased during the first 5 days corresponding to the exponential growth in both experiments. Higher content of carbohydrate (no significance at P?0.05) was found in both media during the first 2 days, after 4 days the carbohydrates reduced three times theirs concentrations. Generally lipid contents in the cultures with agricultural fertilizer were significantly higher (P?0.05) than f/2 medium. The chlorophyll a content increased exponentially during the culture, and its concentration was similar in both experiments. In conclusion, the cellular density and the biochemical constituents were similar when using either media. This fertilizer can be used in the production of I. galbana (T-Iso) employed in aquaculture.


Study on keeping the fry tank dosed with phyto. The fry obviously don't eat all the rotifers but if they go empty the rotifers have no nutritional value. With a litte phyto in the water the rotifers will produce eggs and stay gut loaded.



An assessment of the beneficial roles of Nannochloropsis oculata in larval rearing of marine finfish

Masanori OKAUCHI*

?From points of both water quality management by algal nutrient absorption and a good live food of rotifer, the role of Nannochloropsis oculata supplied to larval rearing water was examined by a larval rearing experiment in this study. Larvae of Japanese red sea bream, Pagrus major, were reared being fed rotifers and subsequently an artificial diet during the thirty-day experimental period. In the four test tanks (100-L capacity) each with 1,000 Japanese red sea bream larvae in addition to the rotifers, N. oculata was maintained at a density of 5-10?105 cells/mL while in the four control tanks, no N. oculata supplemented, but all the other experimental conditions were the same as the test tanks.
?At the end of the experiment, the concentrations of inorganic nitrogen (NH4-N, NO2-N, and NO3-N) and inorganic phosphate (PO4-P) in the control tanks were 1.5-2.0 times higher than those in the test tanks. While, the number of rotifers with eggs in the test tanks was remarkably higher in comparison with that in the control tanks. Moreover, rotifers in the test tanks contained much more eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) and n-3 highly unsaturated fatty acid (n-3 HUFA), so that their nutrient value is concluded as higher than that in the control tanks. From the results of this experiment, supplementation with N. oculata into the rearing water is concluded to produce beneficial effects on maintaining water quality and also enhancing the nutrient quality of the rotifers.


COMAS article on growing phyto -
http://www.mycomas.com/content/view/62/87/


This stuff is pretty cool isn't it? We need a presentation by one of the specialists from the MSI - http://www.utmsi.utexas.edu/
 
@fperkins wrote:
[I]@rckrzy1 wrote:[/I][quote="Have you read the ingredients on a F2 bottle ? It contains cobalt said:
Had this same conversation with Autumn Hoff of FAF.

When I placed the order for the starters and other stuff we discussed MG and she launched into a long diatribe about copper and inconsistent grade of chemical, yada, yada.

When I recieved the order and read the ingredients I called her again. Somehow, it was all going to be ok to feed all the same metals since I was feeding the f/2 to rotifers, and then the rotifers to clown fry. Never did get how feeding metal in MG was any different than feeding metal in f/2.

I guess the rotifers are smart enough not to eat metal in f/2 - but confused when in the MG."]

That's too funny.

Anyone try culturing T. Iso? I'm wondering if MG mix would do fine with this strain. Also I've heard you should use RO/DI, but it would make more sense to me to mix using tap since it has a little chlorine in it and will help to sterilize the mix. If you do need it right then, add some dechlorinator.

Anyone have thoughts on tap vs ro/di?
 
Hi All
I have been thinking is there any reason you couldn't feed the phyto "skimate"? it's mostly fish waste and there wouldn't be any bad chemicals, and we all have plenty of it. Just a thought
Joe
 
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