Plan of attack - Help needed

[silveroak]

All,

I have been lurking on these forums for some time, but am finally getting ready to make the jump to salt water. I have always had very good success with fresh water systems, so I know that I have the patience and discipline to do well in this hobby. I have always kept great water quality, and had healthy fish and plants.

On the 15th of next month, I am moving into a new house that has a BEAUTIFUL built in cabinet system in the office that includes a 150 gallon tank. I plan to set this up as a marine tank, that will include a small number of fish along with soft corals. The issue that I am running into is that there is a HUGE amount of data online about salt water tanks and husbandry, but it is varied, and i'm not sure how reliable all of it is. I would like to post my plan here, and have those of you that have a lot more experience look at what I am trying to do, and see if there are any flaws in my logic or understanding.

The tank is 150 gallons, and I have never done salt water before, so I am starting fresh on equipment. I will start with the stocking list of the fish that I would like to get to, and then move onto the equipment and plan for cycling the tank once I get moved in.

Stocking:
Clowns (Ocellaris) - 2
Firefish - 1
Flame Angel - 1
Yellow tang - 1
(Would love to add a hippo tang here, but I don't think there will be room)
Watchman goby - 1

There would also be a cleaning crew, but I really need to hear some suggestions on what to put in for that. I would also like to have some type of shrimp in there (one or two at most)

Equipment:
t5 lighting - Enough for 5W per gallon (HO)
Protein skimmer - I have never used one before, but think that I need it.
Sump - I need a recommendation on a good size here, and want to include a fuge to build a pod population well before adding any gobies. I also want all of my equipment (heaters and such) in there.
Power heads - I don't have any at the moment, but will buy what I need to get great (not good. Great) circulation in the tank.

I don't have the money after getting the house to splurge for a ton of liverock at the moment, so my plan is to add about 150Lbs of Lace rock to the tank, along with 40-50lbs of live rock that I buy in a store or from the board to seed my tank.

I will also be putting in a DSB, so will be getting enough sand to put a 5in bed in the tank (will be looking for someone to spare a cup of sand to seed this as well!)

Of course sand and rock will be added first, tank will cycle with just that, then add some cheato to the fuge and start that. I was told that it is better not to start using a skimmer till week 4, but if that is wrong, please let me know.

After tank parameters are stable for a couple of weeks I will add the cleanup crew, then the clowns a few weeks after that. I plan to add fish at the rate of about 1 a month till I get to the level that I mentioned above, and wait till the tank has been up at least a year before adding a goby.

Well fire away and let me know what you think, and I appreciate you taking the time to read this. I will be joining the club very soon, and look forward to meeting some of you at some point.

EDIT - I forgot, I also need advice on what the best testing supplies are. I like to test my water myself, and will need to buy all of it. I test my water at the LFS once a month or so, but it is primarily to make sure that my supplies are still good, and that the readings are consistent.

 

[Tj51]

Silveroak, my first suggestion would be fork out the $20 and become a member of dfwmas. With all the LFS discounts, you will save plenty. You're plan is good, but you left out a RO/DI unit as you will be needing to do weekly water changes (See Melev's Reef). You mention that you might need power heads....change that to you will. Saltwater livestock need a lot of flow. Find someone on here you really trust and use their advise as your primary source of information. There are a lot of members who know a lot, but you will get a lot of conflicting advice. Marc, Bimmerz, Hegl, DaveJ to name a few take a lot of their time to help people new to salt water.

Good luck!

Tj

 

[silveroak]

@tj51 wrote:

Thanks for the reply. I actually said that I need powerheads, just that I didn't know how many it will take to get the great flow that I want. I do plan to join DFWMAS very soon, just low on cash right now, as I am getting ready for the actual move.

 

[Drew]

[Well I’m board, so I’ll be the first to step up to the plate and try to help out.
I’m going to go through and answer the questions individually, so I’ll list the question/statement first, and then do my best to answer it. Hope this helps.]

Question:
I have been lurking on these forums for some time, but am finally getting ready to make the jump to salt water. I have always had very good success with fresh water systems, so I know that I have the patience and discipline to do well in this hobby. I have always kept great water quality, and had healthy fish and plants.

[Answer: No answer here, but it sounds like you’re off to a good start.]

Question:
On the 15th of next month, I am moving into a new house that has a BEAUTIFUL built in cabinet system in the office that includes a 150 gallon tank. I plan to set this up as a marine tank, which will include a small number of fish along with soft corals. The issue that I am running into is that there is a HUGE amount of data online about salt water tanks and husbandry, but it is varied, and I’m not sure how reliable all of it is. I would like to post my plan here, and have those of you that have a lot more experience look at what I am trying to do, and see if there are any flaws in my logic or understanding.

[Answer: You will find tons of varying info, even on this board. I know I do things quite a bit differently that others, and what works for me may not work for you. My suggestion would be to get a few good books, as the info never changes, and many of them are built on great ideas from others that have used them in the past. Note, if you join the club we have an enormous library which you can borrow books from on a monthly basis.]

Question:
The tank is 150 gallons, and I have never done salt water before, so I am starting fresh on equipment. I will start with the stocking list of the fish that I would like to get to, and then move onto the equipment and plan for cycling the tank once I get moved in.

Stocking:
Clowns (Ocellaris) - 2
Firefish - 1
Flame Angel - 1
Yellow tang - 1
(Would love to add a hippo tang here, but I don't think there will be room)
Watchman goby - 1

There would also be a cleaning crew, but I really need to hear some suggestions on what to put in for that. I would also like to have some type of shrimp in there (one or two at most)

Equipment:
t5 lighting - Enough for 5W per gallon (HO)
Protein skimmer - I have never used one before, but think that I need it.
Sump - I need a recommendation on a good size here, and want to include a fuge to build a pod population well before adding any gobies. I also want all of my equipment (heaters and such) in there.
Power heads - I don't have any at the moment, but will buy what I need to get great (not good. Great) circulation in the tank.

[Answer: I believe you have these in the wrong order. Equipment is extremely important when building a reef tank, and if you don’t do it right the first time around, you’ll be wasting money for years to coming replacing bad equipment and dead animals that were not put into a stable enough tank. With that being said, you don’t have to spend a fortune on equipment to get a great tank, but you need to understand what you’re purchasing, and how it all works. There’s no point in buying a calcium reactor, if you’re not going to learn to use it correctly.
The lighting looks like a good start. T-5s are fairly new on the scene, and for the type of tank you’re wanting to set-up, they should be fine.
You don’t need a skimmer right off the bat, but after the tank cycles, you will need to have one in mind. I would look for one rated between 150-300 gallons. That way, if you decide to upgrade, you will have one, or if you overload on fish, it will give you a little more room for error. Skimmers can vary in price from a couple hundred bucks up to thousands of dollars. I’ve always been a big euro-reef fan, and you really can’t go wrong with them. There are new cone skimmers that are out, and showing very well, but they can easily set you back 6 or 700.00 bucks. Just make sure you get a needle wheel/mesh wheel skimmer.
Sump: Is you’re tank already reef-ready(does it have overflow boxes), or will you need to add an overflow box?
I’m not a big fuge fan, but Trigger systems makes a number of sumps with fuges built in, and can handle your 150.
Powerheads: This is another area where your personal preference comes into play. You can spend 20 bucks for a power head, or hundreds of dollars. I would recommend using 3 or 4 of the hydor 4’s for a tank like that, as long as you can add magnets to the side or the back of the tank. They are cheap, can be controllable, and are easy to replace.
If you want to drop some cash on powerheads, go with the tunzes. They aren’t cheap, but you can’t beat the flow and the service.
They do have problems, but they are usually good about replacing them.

Fish:
Start very slow. The rock is the most important thing to get in there at first. It you get good rock, and let it cycle properly, it will be your main source of filtration for years to come. With fish, add the easier stuff first, but after your tank has cycled with the rock. Keep in mind that a lot of stores will try to sell you damsels with your rock to cycle it, what they won’t tell you is that you may be stuck with those damsels forever, so choose wisely. As the tank matures, you can add the firefish, tangs, clowns, and eventually the gobies and flame angel. Just keep in mind, what you put in there may be there for a while, so choose wisely.]

Question:
I don't have the money after getting the house to splurge for a ton of liverock at the moment, so my plan is to add about 150Lbs of Lace rock to the tank, along with 40-50lbs of live rock that I buy in a store or from the board to seed my tank.

[Answer: Live rock is beyond important when building a reef tank. If you don’t want to spend money up front, check out the boards for dead and bleached rock, often called cooked rock. It will be cheaper, and is old live rock that someone has killed because it had something wrong with it. I wouldn’t use lace rock if you paid me. However, you can use holey rock, and while it’s not perfect, it’s better than the problems you will have with using lace rock. I would do my best though to either get live rock, or as much cooked rock as possible. It will save you a ton of head ache in the future. ]

Question:
I will also be putting in a DSB, so will be getting enough sand to put a 5in bed in the tank (will be looking for someone to spare a cup of sand to seed this as well!)

Of course sand and rock will be added first, tank will cycle with just that, then add some cheato to the fuge and start that. I was told that it is better not to start using a skimmer till week 4, but if that is wrong, please let me know.

[Answer:
Sand beds are a matter of personal preference. However, if you’re trying to save money, dropping hundreds of dollars on sand, isn’t exactly the best idea. I would start with a thinner sand bed, and put that extra money towards rock. Then you can add bags of sand later. I would also try and do some bags live sand mixed with the dry stuff. Keep in mind, all dry sand needs to be washed before use, so don’t get the sugar sized stuff, and remember to rinse, or your tank will be cloudy for days and days. You are correct about the skimmer, you don’t need it at first.]

Question:
After tank parameters are stable for a couple of weeks I will add the cleanup crew, then the clowns a few weeks after that. I plan to add fish at the rate of about 1 a month till I get to the level that I mentioned above, and wait till the tank has been up at least a year before adding a goby.

[Answer: If you can stay this disciplined with your fish purchases, that’s great. However, plan ahead because this hobby is very addicting, and you can find yourself buying multiple fish at once, without doing the research first. Do as much research as possible before buying the fish, because many places will sell you whatever you want, rather than whats best for your tank.]

Well fire away and let me know what you think, and I appreciate you taking the time to read this. I will be joining the club very soon, and look forward to meeting some of you at some point.

Question:
EDIT - I forgot, I also need advice on what the best testing supplies are. I like to test my water myself, and will need to buy all of it. I test my water at the LFS once a month or so, but it is primarily to make sure that my supplies are still good, and that the readings are consistent.

[Answer:
I believe Elos, is the current gold standard for testing kits. But consistency is always a problem with most. Davej or Marc could definitely shed some more light on this subject, because they did a number of tests on these at one point].

 

[Tj51]

dang, I left Drew out on the list of knowledgable reefers, a complete oversight as you can see

 

[Guest]

Wow nice comments.

Wish I started with a nice skimmer to begin with. Don't forget to add a carbon/GFO reactor or just use passive carbon and gfo filtration.

Live rock is super cheap here on the forums like 2-3 per #. I would buy 250 #'s and take out and resell what does not work or needed.

Some of my facorite online vendors are marindepot, aquacave, and bulkreefsupply.com. Marine depot has the best website IMO and has lots of comments on their reef crap. Aquacave just becasue. Bulkreefsupply is my favorite and will save you a ton on chemicals and stuff that is not fun to spend money on.

The local fish stores are probably the best place to go for fish purchases and toher livestock.



Another cheap powerhead config is the maxijet 1200 + sureflowmod+ magnet. It will push 2200+ GPH and provide the necessary circulation to keep the tank healththy. You could also consider ecotech MP40 probably the best powerhead on the market.

With that big tank of yours I would stock bigger fish and stick with only blue green chromis damsels.

Best

 

[silveroak]

For water movement. I am thinking that I will buy 4 of the Hydor 4s. I will start out with 3 in the tank plus a spare, and add the 4th if there needs to be more movement. Each one of these will provide 1200GPH water movement, so I shouldn't need more than 3, especially if I have an external pump that turns water 10X per hour right?

 

[Tj51]

@silveroak wrote:

should be plenty, be sure to get a wavemaker/controller....but your answer about membership sounded kind of funny. You're planning on spending a ton to start up, can get 10% off with membership but don't have the $ because of the move? How can you buy pumps and stuff then. Again, if you join you get an immediate 10% off most stores (check under find your local fish store banner at top right)...it's a great deal and from what you are planning on spending you will save money many times over.

 

[silveroak]

@tj51 wrote:

should be plenty, be sure to get a wavemaker/controller....but your answer about membership sounded kind of funny. You're planning on spending a ton to start up, can get 10% off with membership but don't have the $ because of the move? How can you buy pumps and stuff then. Again, if you join you get an immediate 10% off most stores (check under find your local fish store banner at top right)...it's a great deal and from what you are planning on spending you will save money many times over."]

I didn't say that I would buy a single piece of equipment before joining the club. I still have at least 3 weeks to plan this. I will be joining the club when I get paid again on the 15th, since I blew most of the money that I have for this check in earnest deposits, etc.

I am just using my time to build the game plan here. Execution will be as a DFWMAS member.

 

[bimmerzs]

@silveroak wrote:

I would stick with four powerheads to get good overall turbulent flow throughout your tank. Your return pump has one job and that is to return water back to your tank, it should not be used to create massive flow in the display. You have to factor in sump/refugiums only needing 3-5 times turnover, in order to be effective and reduce issues with microbubbles etc. You can use a higher flow return pump if you choose to use a manifold, some pumps such as sequence dart's can be throttled back. Keep it basic and let's not try to reinvent the wheel here. :lol:

Cheers,

 

[Tj51]

@silveroak wrote:

should be plenty, be sure to get a wavemaker/controller....but your answer about membership sounded kind of funny. You're planning on spending a ton to start up, can get 10% off with membership but don't have the $ because of the move? How can you buy pumps and stuff then. Again, if you join you get an immediate 10% off most stores (check under find your local fish store banner at top right)...it's a great deal and from what you are planning on spending you will save money many times over."]

I didn't say that I would buy a single piece of equipment before joining the club. I still have at least 3 weeks to plan this. I will be joining the club when I get paid again on the 15th, since I blew most of the money that I have for this check in earnest deposits, etc.

I am just using my time to build the game plan here. Execution will be as a DFWMAS member."]

It will be money well spent! There is a lot of equipment on our sale forums also

 

[v320]

You mentioned, watchman goby... these are not one of the gobies that require a very healthy pod population, even though it definately wouldn't hurt, so you don't have to wait a year or longer.
I think you may have a different goby in mind - ie. a mandarine or a scooter?
If you are referring to a "yellow watchman goby" or the like, you may want to add it in much earlier on your list... perhaps right before or after the clowns.

And I completely agree with the live rock comment - stick with only live rock or "some" cooked rock - nothing else.
Also, if you are adding the dsb for denitrification purposes (and not for asthetics), you can always keep a shallow sandbed in your display and a have a dsb in ur fuge (if you have the room) - granted it will not be "as" effective as having the entire display as a dsb.
Good luck.