Need info on Internal Bacterial Infections

A

aeroutaF35

Premium Member
I lost a coral beauty last week and a yellow tang yesterday and now my sailfin is hardly eating and hiding alot. Water par. are good and no signs of ich or whites spots on body or fin. The fish appears sluggish and hides. I have a Q. tank set up but dont know what really needs to be done.
 
I had the same thing happen to an orange clown of mine. He became sick, started hiding and then a couple of days later wouldn't eat. So, I figured I had nothing to lose. This is what I did. I took 2 gallons of freshwater and matched the temp and ph. and put an air pump in the water.

I had this stuff:
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I tried this stuff before because it was a food and I had a pair of pink clowns that were dying. I couldn't get it to work, because it didn't stay in gel form and wasn't effective because the fish couldn't ingest it.

Anyway, back to what I did this time. The product has Metronidazole, which I read on various internet sites was good for internal parasites and bacterial infections. So, I put 40 drops in the 2 gallons and put the fish in there for 20 minutes. I figured the fish would have no option but to ingest the product. When I placed him back in the tank he sank to the bottom and stayed there, just above the sand. I told my wife that I thought he was a goner. About 24 hours later I put some food in the tank. He ate!! he has been in perfect health since. I can't say that you will get the same response, but I would do it again in a heartbeat. The fish obviously took in the medicine that it needed.
-Chuck
 
Fresh water dips / baths are often used for external parasite treatments. Unless the fish is in really bad health, they can usually tolerate the osmotic shock better than the parasites.

Obviously, it won't help much for internal parasites, but as a preventative / just in case, it may help.
 
I dont see any signs of external parasites. If i where to take a picture of the fish it would look very healthy. The fish is sluggish and doesnt eat as aggressively.
 
You could try adding the px to 2 gallons of tank water to see if you would have the same effect. But, doing nothing does not seem to be stopping your problem. I hope that you can get this solved. I know there is a lot of controversy surrounding it and it's effect, but you may want to start adding garlic to the food. I personally don't believe it cures anything, but garlic does have immune building properties. So, Garlic may help as a preventative for your other fish.
-Chuck
 
It really is a tricky thing to diagnose a fish. I'm ruling out a parasitic infection simply because currently there are no visual signs on the fish. However the infection seems to be spending from one fish to another, killing its host which seems to be parasitic. Do bacterial infections do the same? In the last day of the yellow tang I noticed some small blotched out spots on the anal and spinous dorsal fins, along with reddish brown looking streaks on the nape (head).

As of now my desjardini is beginning to lose its appetite and is not nearly as active. I need to treat with something today, just not sure what to treat yet, but doing nothing as claimed two healthy fish.

Does anyone know a good way to determine the difference between a gram-negative pathogenic bacterial diseases and a gram-positive?? This information would be very helpfully in determining the best form of treatment.

@ChuKronos wrote:
you may want to start adding garlic to the food. I personally don't believe it cures anything said:
I started adding garlic oil to dried seaweed about 3 months ago when i saw a white spot on a fish. Never seen any trace of the parasite since...
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Ich will attack in the gill area making it hard to see. Did (do) any of your fish rub (flash) against your LR? Your fish could be getting a secondary bacterial infection which they can not fight alone. I've used Maracyn2 for saltwater (and hypo) in a QT with success.
 
@737mech wrote:
Ich will attack in the gill area making it hard to see. Did (do) any of your fish rub (flash) against your LR? Your fish could be getting a secondary bacterial infection which they can not fight alone. I've used Maracyn2 for saltwater (and hypo) in a QT with success. said:
No they dont rub or flash against the LR or substrate at all, if they did that would make it some much easiler to determine to form of infection.

As of now i plan on treating with Maracyn2 this evening except I come across some additional information that doesnt support this.
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It sounds like your fish may have a parasitic infection that is causing a secondary bacterial infection. I am interested to know all of your parameters exactly, including phosphate, salinity & nitrate amongst the others.

Do you have a hospital tank available? I dont recommend treating with antibiotics in a main tank, even if it is a FO.

The difference between gram-negative and gram-positive bacteria is the thickness of the cell wall, and most times lack of a cell wall.
Most bacterial infections that affect fish are gram-negative. Maracyn(Erythromycin) treats mostly gram-positive bacteria, I dont recommend it often for this reason. However it can be combined with some other meds if they dont seem to be helping on their own.

Maracyn2 will treat gram-neg infections and that is what I would start with. I would also lower the temp to 77 and try to keep it there. The salinity lowered to about 1.020 will help as well.
 
You may also try this:
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It contains Nitrofurazone which kills both gram-negative and positive. I have never been able to get these products to stay solid for food, they dissipate in the water. That is why I use around 40 drops in 2 gallons.

Edit: I see Amanda has chimed in. She is the expert.

-Chuck
 
i will post levels later today when i get home. Not sure if i will be able to maintain a temp of 77, i dont have a chiller. I have been floating several 2 liter bottle already. Why do you think the baterial infection is secondary. Should i treat for both baterial and parasitic infections?
 
How large is the QT? How large is the main tank?
It shouldnt be difficult to maintain a low QT temp if its not a huge tank. I use a small fan on mine and that helps quite a bit.

If you can catch him just follow the treatment above and we will go from there depending on his progress.

Catching a tang can be quite difficult. I can't catch mine without taking everything out of the tank. I don't think you have time to play with traps either. Good luck!
 
The QT is 10g , looking to get a larger tank, and the main tank is 125g. How often should the water be changed in the QT and how much. THis could be trick with such a small tank.
 
@Matt wrote:
[I]@aeroutaF35 wrote:[/I][quote="The QT is 10g said:
In any size tank, you should keep plenty of SW ready to go in case the water quality takes a dive which is not hard to do in a 10g tank. We make water daily for our 10g in case this happens. Multiple 50% water changes may be needed if ammonia starts to build up."]

Will do.. I guess just needs to determine the amount of medication to add to the new SW to maintain the desired concentrations in the QT.
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Well, the surgeon is pretty much ?uncatchable?.. I have been unable to pull all the live rock out of the tank. His condition is pretty much the same, barely eating and doesn?t swim around much. As of two days ago he?s been going into frequent spasms, twitching uncontrollably. The only treatment I?ve being able to do is to saturate all the meals in garlic prior to feeding in an attempt to rid him of the parasites onboard, this is the only thing I know to do in a reef tank. I will try catching him again tomorrow in order to conduct more effective treatments before he completely loses his appetite.
 
You will want to ask Amanda, but what if you soaked the food in the medicine and then fed the fish? I have read that getting the fish to ingest the medicine is the best way to treat them. I wouldn't think it would be a problem for the other fish in your tank since everyone may be exposed to the probable parasite.
-Chuck
 
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