Macroalgae free sps tanks? - Should microalgae thrive?

S

spectre

[I am going through an intense multi-month staged QT in order to have the most pest-free SPS tank for my future 'big' tank now in planning.

The only macroalgae I am considering in my tank is chaeto. But even Chaeto tends to reproduce until all nutrients are exhausted.

My experiments have shown that the chaeto will remove enough nutrients that very little microalgael will grow. As many know, this is the food for 'pods' and their larvae (and other small infauna).

A. Calfo suggested in the Book of Coral Propogation that Nitrates should be slightly more than zero (say 10ppm) for optimum coral growth.

Given that my SPS tanks will be fed little (very few small fish and generall low bioload) I am wondering if I should keep Chaeto in there 24/7 at all.

Conceptually, I could just hook up a 'temporary refugium' that would cycle tank water through a "Chaeto tank". I could disconnect the "Chaeto tank" and end nutrient uptake by macroalgae. Thus I could use Chaeto like some use carbon...

I have good husbandry practices, and have been running with zero detectable nutrients in all my coral tanks for about a year. But I think less macroalgae would let me get an explosion of pods.

Thoughts anyone?]
 
[I have no idea, but the idea is interesting.]
 
[Not sure of your methods, but I do not run macro algaes on my SPS tank. This is mainly do to space restrictions and not sure if I would now if I did have the space.

If for nutrient export then sure, but there are other means other than psuedo-algae scrubbers/refugiums. If for pod breeding, then you should not worry. Rock rubble, natural turf algae growth, etc.., will maintain a nice pod population if no hard core predators are present.

Plus, if you feed your corals (as you should) then pods will make up the majority of your clean up crew, although unseen mostly, these guys can lay waste to a dead snail, food chunk, or other meating substances in no time flat, so small "coral foods" shouldn't be an issue at all.

My methods aren't cutting edge and out-dated now, but an evil DSB, big skimmer and heavy feedings seem to work for me.]
 
[Patrick you certainly do not even need a refugium, it can be done without one. But the benefits in the use of the refugium to me are at least two fold. One to grow macro algae so that you can farm it out to export locked in nutrients. Two as breeding ground away from the predators in the display, for pods large and small to multiply. To help with feeding the main tank as they move through the system. You can always set the refugium up using for the second purpose and not grow macro algae as you say you will not need if for nutrient export. Then later down the road if you do find that you need to exports excess nutrients, it would be easy to start using it to grow macro.]
 
[Interesting idea. Try it and see what happens. I think the worst thing that would happen is you get microalgea and don't have a pod explosion. As long as you detect this early you should be able to add Cheato and reduce nutrients before it becomes a real issue!

My question would be why are you trying to feed lightly? We try to feed lightly to avoid nutrients. If you are trying to promote some nutrients you can feed more! I promise you if you feed enough phyto and Golden Pearls, etc you can get nutrients in the water if you want to. Cheato can only do so much.

If you could feed your corals a ton and still have very low nutrients then that would be awesome. To me macro gives you the room to feed more (without having undesirable micro algea) which is what you want to do as the corals should be healthier for it!

I'm not saying it's a bad idea just another view.

Also was Anthony talking about SPS at that point? Just from knowing his stuff pretty well I doubt he would suggest 10 Nitrate for SPS (I could be wrong here). For softies and clams you should want a little as they will uptake the nitrates but SPS. I know Eric Bourneman thinks a trace of nitrate is to much for optimal SPS health. Anyway just throwing it out there.

Your idea is interesting and might workout great for you. Do give a report back if you try it.]
 
[I will have to examine the BoCP to see if Anthony was talking about all corals, or non-SPS corals RE: nitrate of 10ppm is 'ok'

Personally, I have not observed any problems due to Nitrates, but only from elevated Phosphate levels. But these are just distant memories, as I have not had measurable nutrients in some time.

And, indeed, I do have significant pod populations... esp under my 250W HQI. What I am positing is "could I have more pods with macroalgae" or more specifically "what are the tradeoffs of using macroalgae"

Thanks a lot for the inputs. I'll be certain to report back what I find out.

Work is going full steam ahead on the 40gal which will serve as temporary home when I replace my 46 bow with an in-wall tank. This tank is macroalgae free.

Right now I am working to eliminate the vermatid snails (plague ones... just like Shimek commented in reefkeeping this month)]
 
[What you mentioned is a good idea and I belive has acually been suggested by Anthony. Setup a fuge in a way so that a timed valve can turn the sump on and off from the display once or twice a day.

The other option is to dose nitrates. Freshwater plant keepers do it, many reef keepers in Europe are starting to dose nitrates rather then try to let them hang around 5-10.

Maybe you can keep less macro algae, the less of it there is, the less it will consume. Keeping less light in the fuge should inhibit its growth some as well. Without light the growth will slow as will nutrient uptake.

Great ideals all around in this thread :beer:

Also was Anthony talking about SPS at that point? Just from knowing his stuff pretty well I doubt he would suggest 10 Nitrate for SPS (I could be wrong here). said:
Yes upto 10ppm for SPS. 5-7 is what I belive is recommended. SPS require nitrates to grow, with a TRUE (most test kits are not this accurate) nitrate content of 0 your SPS would pretty much cease to grow.]



Edited By mwolek on 1106096817
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[I don't understand the point of running it periodically???

Zooxanthallae are plants!!!! While plants can need nitrates all the time they use it only part of the time (lights on). I don't think it will damage the coral so why cut it off?

I remotely mentioned that corals need nitrates and I am heckled... You say it and everyone says interesting idea! :no:

Whatever, last points the SPS suck up the limited Nitrates in our system. Then like a standard plant (would through the roots) they apparently bleed it out when the lights go off.

It may sound like I am an idiot and if my embarrassment helps so be it! When I first started I was given at different time 2 montipora digitata one by Peter Lin one by someone else. They did well for a while but, they both eventually got covered by algae (I thought removing it would damage the corals) and because I didn?t it died.

My observation is it was not on the rock it wasn't on the glass why the corals? I felt and still do it must be the corals were saturated with "fertilizer" similar effect to a plant. If too much fertilizer the plants will shed the additional unused fertilizer to the root and saturate the ground until it can be used. I think the Zooxanthallae bleed it out.

It attracts algae cultures in turn which cover it waiting for the leftover and suck life out of it. I think that?s why things like an acro crabs are so important. It keeps the coral clean. For the crab it gets a safe heaven and easy food? just a thought though?

obviously prestine water conditions will make way for diatoms and hair algae. are you going to sterlize the water also?]



Edited By BrianC on 1106099157
 
@BrianC wrote:
[I don't understand the point of running it periodically??? Zooxanthallae are plants!!!! While plants can need nitrates all the time they use it only part of the time (lights on). I don't think it will damage the coral so why cut it off? Whatever said:
[Just a few responses to Brian I thought would be useful.

First off, if you have algae growing on the tips of you corals, something is wrong that requires correction. Probably too much nutrients and/or too low pH,KH.

I suspect high phosphates (and by high I mean detectable at any level when you keep SPS). Husbandry time :p I had PO4 problems for many months until I cut back on my fish load and my feedings.

Nitrogen is the basis of protein, and many corals absorb it directly from the water. I even have a Pavona which may not 'feed' at all.

The reason I proposed only connecting the refugium periodically is to insure that the nitrogen in the water column is 'available' to the coral. Cycling through the pod/microalgae (and pray/poop) .

If the macro is around, that cycle 'ends' with the nitrogen fixed in the macroalgae (unless it rots in the tank...)

The nitrogen that corals (and plants, and algae, etc) uptake is not released when the lights are off. Indeed, much is released in the form of mucus or waste, but there is no definitive 'bleeding' of nitrogen at night.

Key for this system, though, is low nutrient input. Phosphorous is more of a problem nutrient than]
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[Patrick, I was thinking about your idea. I think most overlooked "macro" algae free... I think you meant you were going to harvest micro algae (or hair algae for those that still haven't caught on)

I think it's an ingenious idea. I can think of anything better for nutrient export than hair algae. But, it's really not all that hardy.

Sure it will start any where... and it is a sign a tank is cycling properly but,I can't honestly see the large growths the macro algae get.

Next, what about it spreading to the main display I don't understand how you will stop that?

After reading this what I am attempting to do is allow the hairalge to grow rampant in my overflows and entrance to the sump.

I use cheatomorph as a sponge to block the hairalgae and such from the baffles and main pump. periodically I kill the pump and shake out all the excess particles the cheato gets. What do you think?]
 
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