Insanely high Calcium level...

G

gaberosenfield

I just tested my water after doing a water change and, according to my API Reef Master Test Kit, my Calcium level is 720 ppm. The strangest thing is that my KH is still 9 dKH. Is that even possible? I was under the impression that very high calcium levels make keeping appropriate KH levels difficult and vice versa. I am only a little worried about all this because I am going out of town for about a week tomorrow. I have a reef angel controller and dosing pumps (which I won at nextwave [smilie=wink.gif]) set up to care of my tank in my absence, but I just set it up and now I am thinking that I should just turn off my calcium dosing for the coming week. I am using Seachem reef salt if that is of any relevance. I haven't yet checked S.G. but I will use my lab's refractometer to check it tonight. None of my tank's inhabitants seem negatively affected and only my perpetually depressed Duncan seems unhappy. Total system volume is ~22 gallons. System is 2 and a half months old. I have 2 clowns, 1 pinfish (a stowaway), a cleaner shrimp, 3 sexy shrimp, snails, 3 hermits, and several varieties of sps, lps, and softies. Can't think of anything else that could at all relevant to any advice anyone could give me. What do you guys think about my freakishly high calcium levels? Bad test kit? It seemed to work before now...
 
I should add one more thing. I have been making my own 2 part using CaCl2 and NaHCO3 with some NaOH to keep pH in check. I was measuring my calcium and alkalinity drop daily for a while and adjusted my dosing regiment to just keep up with demand, but maybe I somehow have been over adding calcium. My point is that it is possibly that I have been over dosing calcium...
 
The ca/alk/pH relationship is actually very complex. It's hard to say when calcium carbonate will precipitate. That's not the question I'd be worried about anyway. Whatever the problem is, discontinuing alk/ca additions and doing some water changes will drive things back to nominal. That's what I would do. In parallel, I'd get some alk/ca references and test against them.
 
Don't worry about pH levels. Focus on Alk, Ca, and Mg levels.

To get them back in line, a few big water changes will help.
 
Just curious, but what would be the harm of high calcium in the water? Wouldn't it just be the potential for precipitate? If KH is ok, pH is ok, a d specific gravity is ok, what happens? Is too much calcium harmful?
 
@Marc wrote:
Don't worry about pH levels. said:
Got it. I will, from now on, discontinue my use of NaOH and will just not worry about pH.

@jvswan wrote:
Just curious said:
That is exactly what I was thinking. I mean, it seems to me that if I just stop dosing Calcium for a while that it will eventually fall back into line. All of this is only an issue because I'm going out of town today and won't be back for a week.

Anyone want to weigh in on jvswan's question?
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OK, I'm about to leave and after testing again, my calcium has stayed the same but my KH has dropped by one dKH overnight. Calcium dosing is now off for the week while KH dosing will be on. Wish me luck!
 
Just curious said:
I not aware of a biological or chemical issue with high calcium, but that doesn't mean there isn't one. There is a school of thought in the hobby that suggests that significant deviation from 'natural' isn't good. If you're not a chemist/biologist, I think it's a pretty good basis to work from.

Precipitation causes problems for your equipment, of course.

Playing around with alk/ca balance when its far from normal is usually not a good idea, IME. Small adjustments are workable, but when it gets far out of balance, it's really tough to get under control without inducing some pretty wild oscillations in chemistry.
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You should continue to dose Baked Baking soda (or Soda Ash) to maintain the same alkalinity level you are aiming for. Alk drops quickly. Calcium more slowly. Magnesium ever so slowly.
 
The dosing pump is not what caused the calcium to rise. I just set it up in preparation for my vacation. Normally I dose calcium manually during the day and alk manually during the evening before bed. But this past week or two I put my calcium supplement in my top off water. I'm thinking that my homemade float valve controlled ATO must have overdosed the calcium. I don't have a pump in my ATO container so I bet the denser calcium solution settled towards the bottom and gave too high a dose of calcium. It seems like an obvious mistake now, but hindsight is 20/20. Now, with my dosing pump, it should be fixed.
I'm not quite a chemist/biologist, but I am a third year undergraduate studying biochemistry and molecular biology. Let me just tell you that standard education in those fields dose not allow one to know whether higher than natural levels of calcium (or magnesium or any other not obviously toxic substance) will hurt relatively obscure and unstudied organisms!
I've taken Marc's advice: alk dosing is enabled and calcium dosing is off. I will test when I return this coming weekend and report my findings here.
 
Not to go too far off topic, but if you are dosing kalk with your ATO (to maintain calcium), you might want to stick a circulation pump in the container. That stuff does settle out. Usually you would just top off with the clear, saturated water, and remix with the precipitate. But, if you are putting it into your ATO container, it might make sense to add a pump or something in there. I think lots of people who do use kalk for their ATO operations have an automatic stirrer or something.

I've always dosed kalk with jugs manually, so I'm not talking from experience. Just something to think about, I guess.
 
Well, I have returned. I have a bit more algae than I had when I left and one of my sexy shrimp is MIA, but everyone else is OK. My Calcium is still at 600 ppm! Alk was about 7, so I have increased the dosing. Overall, the reef angel kept everything pretty well. I now have it dosing alk based upon pH, so my pH is kept constantly between 8.25 and 8.35 by dosing NaOH solution. I think it will work better to control my alk/ph simultaneously with NaOH than with NaHCO3/NaOH because the latter solution tends to make a precipitant while NaOH stays in solution pretty well. I know that Marc said pH is not very important, and I understand. I am only using it as a proxy for controlling alkalinity. I will let everyone know if this system works out.
 
Well that failed quickly. My high calcium level combined with the amount of NaOH required to keep the pH at 8.25-8.35 caused a massive calcium precipitation. It is everywhere. No inhabitants seem hurt, but dosing is off for the moment and hopefully my skimmer can pick out some of the calcium particles...On the up side, I bet my calcium isn't high anymore...
 
@gaberosenfield wrote:
Well said:
personally I would spread your alk out equally through out the day. If you just have alk dose once a specific ph you are gonna have peaks and lows in alk you want it stable. Plus as you buildup co2 in the house your ph drops and if your air out the house or a door or window is open your ph goes up.


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Well, the idea was that as pH drops below 8.25, dosing will increase it to 8.35. Not a big shift in pH. Then it will slowly fall back to 8.25 and will be raised back up to 8.35. But now I am thinking that I will keep it between 8.0 and 8.1. Maybe that will prevent calcium precipitation.
 
@jvswan wrote:
Just curious said:
what happens it starts to buildup on pumps, ball valves so when you turn the pumps and try to turn it back on it seizes up or ball valves don't turn.


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Yeah, I understood that, I just wanted to know if it caused problems for animals in the tank. Anyway, I'm sure my calcium is low now after the massive precipitation that just occurred.
 
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