Do you have a clean up crew? Things to know...

melev

melev

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Here's my latest article on this important topic. Hope you find it useful.

http://melevsreef.com/cuc

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I like your recommendation for a hypothetical 100 gallon tank. How would you build to that number for a new tank that is essentially barren after cycling, i.e., before any live stock is added?
-Ken


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You don't really need anything in a barren tank because they would likely starve to death. However, within a couple of months of stocking livestock, you'll want a clean up crew in there to keep things tidy.
 
Yes, understood. But when and how many (at what rate) when the first fish and coral frags go in? I wouldn't think it wise to add 50-60 new mouths at one time and have them compete for food.


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Within 60 days of adding livestock, I'd hit it with a big number of critters. You save money on bulk orders and you'll be feeding the tank at least once a day for those 60 days. That, plus the resulting fish waste, will add to what is basically algae fuel. So two months in with the lights hitting the rocks 7-8 hours a day, yes I'd still go with a decent CUC. I wouldn't get 7 snails and a few hermits -- as one speaker said, you need lots of cows to keep the grass under control.
 
But, would a purist quarantine all those "cows" first?


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Exactly...the quandary I face for my first reef tank with the plethora of information out there. So, I think, realistically I have to bite the bullet and accept the risk of introducing pests with the initial fish and CUC. Just deal with any pests that may be introduced (assuming they are detectable) and only begin the quarantine process when the DT is better established at say, the 6 month point. Does that make sense?
 
Makes sense, but...

I still plan to QT the first fish prior to releasing them in the DT. Taking into account the info from Marc, I was thinking this:

QT first group of fish 1 month while DT cycles.
Release first group of fish and start QT on second group.
After another month release second group and QT CUC. (Assuming you can provide for their needs in QT)

This way, two months after the first fish hit the system, you are ready with a clean CUC to release.

I wonder if algae wafer and some macro would suffice to keep the CUC alive and happy.
 
I was thinking along similar lines, however, I think what Marc is telling us (and I am in no way qualified to speak for him--stuff is very obvious to him but not so obvious to me, yet anyway) you cannot provide enough of the right kinds of nutrients for the CUC in a bare QT. You also must have some means of seeding the QT with beneficial bacteria to promote the nitrogen cycle. Hence the foam filter maturing in the DT sump for several weeks (after it cycles) before placing it into the QT. It's a chicken and egg thing. So in my case of the 65 gallon DT I am thinking of beginning with 2-3 small fish (dip in fresh RO/DI water first) after it cycles then add the CUC one to two months later when I start seeing algae growing. I think they call this the "nasty" stage. Then begin the QT process thereafter for all future additions. I think you definitely want to quarantine new arrivals prior to any significant investment in livestock. If a problem develops in the DT with the initial fish and CUC you can always move the fish to a QT and let the DT fallow for a few months. That's the tradeoff in pest risk management. Over to the experts for some sage advise...
 
That was my concern as well. Maybe someone will chime in.

I am cycling my QT with a piece of grocery store shrimp for the time being. I know there is a lot of debate over the cycling methods, but it has always worked in freshwater tanks for me.

If you decide to go the route of using the DT's foam/media to seed your QT, I would use Safety Stop. Marc even sells it on his site and has an excellent video about its use. I have been using a similar (diy) method of baths for introducing fish to my pond for a year now with great results. I plan on switching over to Safety Stop though as it takes the guess work out of it.

Sadly I don't think Safety Stop is CUC safe. If only there was a good dip for the CUC...
 
I don't think you need to QT the clean up crew at all. While technically it is possible something might sneak in, they are CLEANERS. They are picking each other clean in tanks that really have no food (at the wholesalers as well as at your LFS), and whatever sneaky bit may have tried to get through is almost assuredly devoured by those hungry mouths.

No-one QTs their clean up crew.

You are creating a living biotope, not a museum piece. People set up barren systems with dry sand, dry rock, add a fish, add a coral, add a snail and freak out over the tiniest newcomer. Lots of critters are great, some are even awesome. Yes, over the years I've run into some nasty pests but I just dealt with them. I didn't rip my reef apart to solve it, I just tackled the issue in tank and got it under control.

Here's my video about cycling:
[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZEnRLRQKRw[/video]
 
Thanks Marc. Another great video. Love the FRAG tank design. Also have seen your other dedicated video on cycling.

I’ve had 50 lbs of Pukani dry rock curing in a Rubbermaid trash can since the end of June. It has been an educational process watching the progression of released organic matter being consumed by various bacteria. I have a small power head and canister filter circulating the water. In the first week I was literally skimming the foam off the surface of the water with a plastic plate. Ammonia and phosphates went thru the roof. The soup was nasty! A 50% water change appeared to have little effect. By the end of the 4th week after another water and carbon change in the canister filter the ammonia was undetectable but nitrites and nitrates went thru the roof. Another water change plus dosing with lanthanum chloride and the nitrates and phosphates began to come down. After a couple more water changes I am at the point where ammonia is consistently undetectable (I realize it is still there—just being consumed by bacteria), nitrites are now <0.05ppm, nitrate had been 8-9ppm (but crept up to 15 ppm when last checked), and phosphate is now down to 0.04ppm. All checked with Red Sea test kits. I think I am well beyond the curing stage and into the cycling stage.

I should be ready to move the cured rock to the DT when the salt is added and salinity stabilized. I will also add live sand. I know using a shrimp is tried and true; however, I am going to go a little more high tech and try out the ZEOvit System. Any experience with it? I think there is likely still a lot of organic material in the Pukani to support the DT cycling process along with KZ’s combination products of bacteria and bacteria food. Ultimately, their regimen is designed to produce a water column with very low nutrients. I think it is worth a try for a relatively small tank.

Thanks again for entertaining all these new guy questions. Much appreciated!
 
I've never delved into Zeovit. It's rather pricey and you have to stay on it very carefully to keep that narrow margin of results. I've used Prodibio for the past 5 years, which you simply dose every 15 days. It's easier for me.
 
I'll have to look into Prodibio. If I were setting up a larger tank as my first, I would think hard about going down the ZEOvit path. Since I am already invested in it for my 65G, I will give it a try and report results in my build thread. Thanks once again.
 
I am in the same boat, I invested in the zeovit system and then I watched a few of Marc's videos with Prodibio and bio-pellets. I honestly would go Marc's route if I wasn't already so far in. I figure I will play with zeovit until my supplies run out, and then if it is too much hassle I can sell of the reactor and switch directions.
 
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