Big Boy Brainstorm Session

[Servo]

I want to start to get some ideas for my new tank build. I will be moving and upgrading from my 400gallon system.

BUILD/DESIGN
I have NO idea who I want to build my tank. I wish Aquarium Obsessed was still in business *sigh*. I'll probably go local given the pending size of the tank.

The tank is going to likely be an in wall with 2 viewing sides. I think I'm going to go with 8 foot by 4 foot depth tank. I'm debating on a 25 inch or 30 inch depth.

Steel stand with catwalk. I will need some fancy way to access the top of the tank with a 4 foot width.

FLOW
I have no idea what I want to do about flow. I hated my closed loop on my existing tank. I used a reefflow dart. After a couple of years.The tank is drilled on the sides. I put penductors on the outflow. It looked bad and blasted in a pin point location, so I was stuck with the inability to really use the space.

I'm going to use sea swirls for all of the returns for oscillating flow.

I'll transfer my current Tunze pumps (2 6105, 1 6205 and 2 wave boxes) and likely add a 6305. I'll likely sell my 3 controllable nanostreams.

With all of this flow, I still will need some internal closed loop given the size of the tank.

Lighting
This is tough. I may use solar tubes as constant "ambient light", but I'm not going to rely on them as a primary source. I may go with 8 400W 20K Radiums or LED's, but I haven't been happy with the coloration that my current LED's give the corals in my frag tank. I do have to admit, I am still playing with the output. It would be a huge project, but I could get a great DIY set up for LED's. I'm really attracted not to burn 8 400 W MH 10/day/24-7/360.

Sump/Circulation
I'll need to get some input here. I want to set up an automatic water change system by turning a pump on for a designated period of time and then dumping in the new water. I'm going to build in redundancy with 2 return pumps to the tank.

Chemistry

I'll use my existing Deltec PF 501S reactor and upgrade to a 509. I have the ability to automate dosing with my profilux.

Aquascaping/livestock

I can't wait for this. I have some great ideas about aquascaping this. Essentially, I'll use slabs to create a bunch of coral bommies. THe rock will be drilled and arranged around in a pedal like pattern to allow me to place corals on them. I'm going to place my M Capricornis near the center with about 2-3 feet of room to grow and scroll. I plan on doing a couple of monoculture bommie's. One will be all stylopora while another will be Seriatopora.

With the size of the tank, I'm going to stock smaller fish first. I've always had terrible luck with Anthias, but really want to get these guys happy and stable first. I'm more of a coral guy, but there are a few fish that I really want including an Achilles Tang. I'm debating trying a Morish Idol.

Filtationr
Debating upon a vat filled with LR. I don't want the importation of pests (algae/majanos/aptasia), but I would love the extra autotrophic denitrification.
I will set up the system with biopellets.

QT system
I will need a separate system QT system for both corals and fish. This will allow me to purchase maricultured colonies and watch them for about 3-4 months before I but them into my main display.

Frag tank
I will use my current 2 frag tanks to daisy chain them into the tank. My current system with the frag tank and the main display has worked out well.

Humidity
In my current system, I am able to open the fish room to the outside. This helps tremendously with any humidity problems. I may do something similar with this one. I'll likely need professional input on a HVac/fan system.

Cooling
Guess what folks; I'm really thinking about going geothermal with this. I hate the fact that I'm replacing in wall AC units every 2 years on average. It is a colossal waste of resources. I don't want the hassle of a 2 ton chiller and the pain to replace it when it breaks. (because it will!) I'm done buying AC units and reinstalling and trying to find equivalent models/sizes. My biggest reluctance is controlling the temp. I don't have any resources to know if this is good or bad, but if effective, should keep the tank 77 degrees without fluctuations.

Fish Room/Accessories
The fish room will have an drain in the floor. This is one thing my current room doesn't have and I would have saved a ton of spills and RO overflows gone wrong.

I'll probably triple the size of my current fish room. I'll figure out dimensions once I'm certain of QT tank sizes and placement.

Sink. YES. I love my sink in my fish room! I'll have an acrylic filter sock holder with a built in clamp to hold a hose. The biggest headache of mine is trying to secure the other end of the hose into the sink. If I want to siphon any detritus, it becomes a major PITA as it flops around and pops out of the sock from time to time.

My vision is a well thought out tank that is focused on a quality environment for corals. The aquascaping will allow for plenty of growth. This tank won't happen for about 1.5 to 2 years from now. I need to get the house designed and built first.

 

[Servo]

@kuyatwo wrote:

I absolutely want an coast to coast external overflow. That is a great way to save space and $ on an acclimation and QT for corals. I don't like using it for placing fish due to the introduction of parasites. I don't know how you can ensure they don't get into the plumbing. Maybe he just has strainers? It is easy to get fish out if there are issues *shrug*. I'll have to ask Sanjay to send me some pictures.

I'm not 100% certain about using AGE, but they are on the short list.

 

[Guest]

There is also miracles they seem to make alot of tanks on r2r. There is another custom builder i know I am forgetting

http://www.miraclesaquariums.com/


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[dtownkennel]

external overflow is awesome...look into bean animal system for it...dead silent

 

[Guest]

If you are gonna run that many 400 watt ballasts I would look into running them at 220 volts so you will need a smaller amp circuit breaker


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[Wes]

@Servo wrote:

Every AGE tank ive seen has been very professionally built and looked fantastic. It might be worth going up to OKC to see Paul Whitbys tank since it is basically the same size you want. He has the 30 inch height so it will give you some perspective on that as well. I personally really like the 29" i have over the 24" i used to have. AGE will be at MACNA too if you dont plan on ordering for a while like you say so you could talk to them in person.

everyone will probably disagree, but 2 mp60s will add a lot of flow without taking up a lot of space. mixing in all the tunzes you have and maybe adding one or two more will give a good mix of flow. like anything else, kept clean they shouldnt offer any trouble.

if you go with bommies like you discuss, you might be able to get away with a mix of LED and halides to get the best of both worlds. put a 400 over each bommie and fill in with LEDs so you save some power at least. the problem might be matching colors but if it works it will probably help a lot with your heating/cooling issues and evap. im like you, not sure im sold on all LEDs yet, but it would be nice to have if the spectrums improved enough to support corals properly.

Have you seen the genisis auto water change systems? i have not read too many reviews on them but it might be worth it to check them out. it seems like they thought of everything - http://www.genesisreefsystems.com/categories.php?cat=7

i cant either, you always do fascinating work!

ill do some searching on this one for you, a plumbing set up was actually discussed at macna in des moines to help prevent the spread of pests from vats like this to the point where you could actually let them grow and use them to your benefit.

 

[Guest]

Hey Ryan if my math is correct with a 4 foot wide tank at 25" tall you will need a 54" reach to work on anything near the front of the tank. You might need to plan on having access from the front also. 30" height will be a 57" reach.

Maybe you can get away with less mh's if you put them on mechanical track do a sunrise sunset effect. 

Might call vivid see if they can give you some pointers on a build like this
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82UA3Z-hiXM&feature=youtube_gdata_player[/youtube]

 

[Servo]

You guys are awesome! This gives me a great point to start.

Wes; you are right. I disagree about the Mp60's. [smilie=rofl.gif] Actually, I don't like the lack of directionality. I don't
really care about the noise issue that everyone moans about, but I love my Tunze's. I know you have both. I guess it's like getting a Mercedes Driver to convert to an Audi.

I would certainly be open to a blend of lights, if I could get it dialed in. Hmmmmm *gears turning*

The one MACNA that I don't go to........ [smilie=angry.gif]

I have a light rack that I used on my frag tank for a while, but it was kinda "wonky".

I'll check into the genesis, but I can probably do all that it does with my Profilux.

 

[melev]

Due to the footprint size of the tank, I'd suggest a staggered lighting period. However, because of the hours you work, you'd miss one or two phases of the period, except on weekends. You don't have to run your lights 10 hours per day if they are in good reflectors. You don't move the lights, but rather cycle them to move from east to west like the sun.

The MP60's don't need directionality. You want in-tank chaotic flow. The flow and ebb of these pumps will definitely add to that chaos, especially if you still use Tunzes to point flow to specific spots you need. It would be nice if you could hide the tunzes down low, pointing up toward the bommies. Add Seaswirls and you'll have the best of all three worlds.

Are you thinking about using Real Reef rock? They are making those shelves, and are devoid of any life since they are man-made. I told them at MAX that they should drill some holes for frag plugs/pegging, which the hobbyist could use or ignore depending on their vision.

The water change system can be done with high end dosing pumps, and your controller can activate it as scheduled.

The floor drain would best be a full french drain like mine. It has worked out exceedingly well.

A walk board for your reef will be awesome. And on the front side, perhaps you could have something similar that is hidden in the woodwork that folds out. Or something that is motorized that rises from the floor with actuators (James Bond like). The thing is, you want the walk board to be the same height as the bottom of the tank to reach easily into your system. Steve Weast's system was 7' x 4' with a huge rolling light rack assembly. He was able to lean over from either side to work in his tank because the tank was even with his walk area. If the back walkboard was permanent, you could have the sump even with the walkboard rather than completely under the tank. You'll be able to reach in more easily that way, not having to duck under the walkboard or make it removable.

For cooling, I'd seriously consider a separate split "slimline" a/c unit like you see in offices. The main section is outdoors like a normal A/C unit, but the other half is in the room. They are about 1/3 of the normal footprint, usually up high on the wall. It costs more, but should be able last longer. A vent fan or two will be critical to keeping your home safe from moisture damage. I'm running a dehumidifier now. It blows out heat though, so I"m going to have to duct that out of the living space before summer hits.

If you have a nice sink and work area installed, you can make a permanent fixture to affix the siphon hose into whatever you need. It could be an under the counter sock with a nipple securely mounted, ready when you are. One build thread had a small trough (12" x 4") in the counter top and his tank's plumbing ran into the trough and continued into the sump. He had all his probes there, and could take water samples from that work area. His username was "Fudge" (real name Marc). It was pretty brilliant. You could even dose additives in that nice spot, allowing the flow to mix up what was added as it heads to the sump. I may incorporate that into my current system somehow.

Multiple circuits for redundancy. Emergency whole house generator should be part of your plan, regardless of the tank's size. You are building your dream tank this time. Outlets up high for the lighting, mid way for your work stations, and down low for the sump's needs.

For working in the tank (when you're really serious), I'd recommend some type of cross board you can lay on to reach the dead center. And having some kind of work station you can bridge the tank to cut and glue frags, to zap pests or to collect out empty shells and other matter, it's nice to have a temporary surface. I use a thick piece of acrylic for that. The wider floater box allows me to see what I'm doing, and my tools are spread out on the acrylic piece. You can either make the tray hold water, preventing tools from falling into the reef, or you could have a couple of holes in it to let water drip back into the tank. I'd prefer the former, so nothing vile gets into the tank from the work I'm doing. You can remove the tray to clean it in your sink or outside.

 

[Wes]

@Marc wrote:

this, IMO, is a key factor to plan for. i almost did it and was talked out of it, wish i would have done it.

 

[JBsmurf]

im curious and this is mostly because I dont know but doesnt the "walk board" cause some concern? If its built into the stand is there a concern that the weight of a person could tweak the steel stand just the smallest of amounts causing a shift in the glass or acrylic which in turn causes stress on seems and seals?

I think its an awesome idea but I would be concerned.

 

[melev]

No. You take the weight of the board itself and the 200 lbs or less person, it'll be fine. I've seen people working on their own tank using the tank itself to pull themselves up, leaning hard on the edge, etc. The walkboard is far less stress on the tank, especially this size. My tank adds up to nearly 5000 lbs total, IIRC.

 

[Servo]

I'm meeting with the Architect this week, so the first thing I need to do is get concrete ideas about the room.

I still need to see where I want to place the tank within the design of the house. I am going to go for a 90 degree viewing angle. In other words, the front and the side.

I am going to set up a nice QT system and as well as a couple of propagation systems. I may also do a 200 gallon rubbermaid container for live rock. The sump will be large enough to do automatic water changes.

In my mind, that's a ton of space and even more humidity.

I've done really well with the humidity issues with my current 500-600 gallon system because I have direct venting to the outside. Humidity has never been a problem. I'm not certain I could design what I want with external access.

My current fish room is approx 12.5 X 8 and is TOO SMALL!!! Double it? I should probably figure out what I want in there and what their respective dimensions will be and get a good idea of the size of the room.

I'm going to have a drain in the main floor as well as a "doggy shower" water station where I can put my RO trash cans.

 

[psteeleb]

With a tank that deep (front to back) I would consider an internal closed loop with the pipe running under or hidden by your rockwork. I’d keep the pump in the center of the tank or offset surrounded by a rock island but accessible from the top for maintenance. Maybe set up two closed loop islands and two wave boxes and forget about visable MP's or Tunze's mounted to the walls

 

[Servo]

Thanks Pete,

I am contemplating on doing just that, but I'm pretty sure that I'll use my Tunze's as well Nevertheless, I'm going to have to bring you on to help with some of the design of the plumbing. Paul Whitby's talk about this was really intriguing at this years Next Wave. It definitely inspired me.

I've gone to Torchy's about 5 times now. My buddy lives in Dallas and on the way home......Thanks for that recommendation as well.

 

[Servo]

@Wes wrote:

this, IMO, is a key factor to plan for. i almost did it and was talked out of it, wish i would have done it."]

Who needs a generator?

I'll have a natural gas back up generator. I was going to have one installed here at my current home, but I'll gamble for another year. The past 7 have gone OK. (S*&$ I just jinxed myself)

 

[Servo]

@Matt wrote:

Yes, I'll have a cat walk. I can't tell you how much I've hated to stand on chairs and ladders over the past 7 years. Grrrrr [smilie=punch.gif]

 

[Servo]

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=686757

Here is that thread Marc. Thanks!

 

[kwl1763]

So you are going big!

Here would be my comments.

1) Personally, I would ditch the closed loop altogether unless you are going to drill the bottom for the returns and build rock around them.
While I have had then and they work OK they never work out as planned and granted they are the cheapest route I have had several and never really been happy.

2) I would mix Tunze's and Vortechs. Vortechs are awesome but the no direction thing is a bit of a deal breaker. Still having 2 MP60s will create some seriously cool wave action without having to have 2 honking huge waveboxes in your tank. Tunze's are still hard to beat for the controllability but I would certainly try to hide the Tunze's behind rock work and have vortecs in front and where needed.

3) Floor drain and sink total no brainers. Think about how you will do water changes and replace water and plan all that also. Also think about changing water in QT tanks, frag tanks, etc. Make sure that is super easy. In my new house I don't have a floor drain so I ran 1.5" PVC along the walls with a slight downslope and several outlets with ball valves around the room so it's really easy for me to hook any pump up to it to empty water I need to down the drain. Designing from scratch just make it super simple to get rid of water,

4) You are going to want active humidity control for sure. My suggestion would be to put a direct vent with a fan on a humidistat. Again do this in design as it should be fairly easy to do. You'll want to move a lot of air out for sure!

5) Make an area where you can stack 2 100G rubbermades on top of each other. One for RODI and one for saltwater. You'll want that much at the ready.

My general advice also would be let nature (aka gravity be your friend). If you can feed the skimmer off a return line do it, You might elevate your topoff water and use a solenoid for putting into tank (no pumps). Get one maxijet 1200 and have it feed water you need as far as reactors (phosban, biopellets, whatever)

Personally I would definitely go LED. You may have to DIY to get full spectrum but the amount of savings on electricity and not having to deal with heat issues will make payback very short on them. Remember getting rid of more heat means forcing evap which leads to humidity and in that size tank thats not good. You'll have plenty already! That's all I can think of for now.

 

[kwl1763]

Oh ya one other thing. I would strongly recommend a coast to coast external overflow. That is what I had on my 450 and it is awesome. Takes up no room in the tank and leaves a real clean look. Aquarium obsessed did mine so no help to you there. But they built basically a6 by 6 inch box as the overflow that wa 8 ft on my 10ft tank with 3 drains in the bottom. You could do them out the back just as easy.