Zoa Predators

Zoa predators

I checked out the sticky on the forum, great information. But no remedies for predators. I have lost two, almost 3 colonies of zoas in 6 months. I was wondering.......

If any, are these predators nocturnal feeders?

How fast can they chow down a colonies? I seem to be loosing 3-5 polyps overnight on this particular colony.

Are there natural predators for these zoa killers?

Would interceptor kill the spiders? (exo-skeleton, similar to shrimp. Just thinking though, could be wrong about that)

Any sites that will help out with soloving this would be great. I cant search reef central cause of traffic :roll: If there are any remedies on RC, post link.

This could be stickied later for others in future
 
@Matt wrote:
Some fish such as particular Wrasses may eat Zoa-eating Nudi's. Nocturnal feeders? Most are not but obviously your Zoa predators ARE. I am unaware of Interceptor being a good treatment for Spiders.

I would suggest removing the Zoa colonies and dipping them. Two Little Fishies makes a product that should be helpful for removing the little nasties.

http://tinyurl.com/6dumaf"]

it says revive is mainly for sps, have you used it on any of your infected softies with success?
 
might do freshwater drip is what is used to kill most zoa pests alo might, also lugols dip will help with pests too....look for sundial snails they are known to munch away on zoas too
 
Derek...

Here is what I know about the various predators and how to eliminate them. I've only dealt personally with nudis and sundails, I have never had spiders.

Nudis..

To completely eliminate them takes time and persistence.

Fresh water method:

If they are removable colonies and you have a QT tank available, the best method is to remove the colonies/frags and dip them for 5 minutes in fresh water, shaking and swishing them liberally to dislodge the full grown. Once that is completed, you look at them VERY carefully and pick off any egg sacs. They are very sticky and are white curly-cue in shape. Once you have the colonies cleaned up put them in the QT tank. Repeat this process every 4 days for 3 or 4 weeks, then once a week or so for another 2 months. The goal here is to get the hatchlings before they mature enough to lay eggs. They hatch out about every 9-15 days and take a week or two to mature enough to lay eggs. Repeated dips and removal will eventually clean the colonies. In the meantime the ones in your main tank will die off going without food for 3 months.

Reef Safe additives: You can couple the above with flatworm worm exit in the dip. This helps shock them and makes them release easier. Tropic Marin Coral Care can also be used, or Lugols solution. These can be used in either fresh or salt water. You can also use Revive in the same manner.

You can also use the above agents in saltwater to help reduce stress, but you will want to extend the treatment period to offset the killing power of the freshwater on these things.

The nuke method:

This method is only to be used with extreme caution and if you have confidence that you can do it correctly.

Obtain Potassium Permanganate crystals. This is a very toxic oxidation agent. You mix 25mg of this per liter of saltwater into a bucket or container and soak the colonies in it for 30-45 minutes occasionally swishing around. Once the period is over, you rinse in more tank water (also in another container) and then either place into QT or back into your tank. The hazard in this is that the agent is poisonous and you should use gloves when handling AND you want to make absolutely sure you get ALL of it off before putting the colonies back into your tank. The stuff is worse than acid in your tank, it will kill everything, corals, fish etc... even a small amount is VERY bad. It is highly effective though and the ONLY currently known treatment that will kill both juvi's/adults and the eggs themselves.

All of these methods would benefit from the addition of a predator in the tank, such as a yellow coris or melanarus wrasse. These are known to eat nudis and are quite effective at picking off any strays. If you use the QT method, I would put one in both the QT and the main tank as you start your war, it will help eliminate them should they pop up.

Using all these methods I have successfully eradicated them from my main tank and 45.

Lets talk losses... while zoanthids and palys are very hardy, the fresh water dips in combination with the other agents are hard on them and you may lose some whole colonies or partials.

I consider the Potassium method less stressful in the long run since it eliminates the need for multiple exposures. If done right, your losses should be minimal. Add to it the fact you do this in tank water and it makes it more effective all around.

Sundial Snails:

The best method for these is fresh water dips AND manual removal. They are much easier to eliminate than anything else. Just go over the colonies carefully once the polyps have closed up in the dip and pick them off. They use a probiscus (snout) to inject into the polyps and suck the juice out, so any polyps they are actively feeding on should be removed or cut away to avoid losing those they are connected to.

Spiders:

Use the same methods for nudis on these, however the wrasses are not known to eat them. There has been some discussion on mandarins or fish that eat snails and stuff eating them, but I have not read of anyone with repeated succsess doing with them. The trick with the spiders is that they will bury themselves into the polyp as it closes. So you will need to watch them carefully for additional signs of being eaten. The good news is that like the nudis and crabs in general, they do not handle fresh water well. So if you are quick and get the colonies into the fresh water before the polyps close and they hide, they will die quickly.

I also suspect that Interceptor will be effective on them as it is kills shrimp and crabs.. or anything with an ectoskeleton that is a crustasean. They are basically crabs, so it should be effective on them too if the dose is big enough. If you have spiders, do this in a QT tank and watch them, the death should come in a few hours and youll be able to see them paralyzed.

Potassium Permanganate will kill them as well....

To answer your question, nudis and sundails will not account for missing polyps overnight, nor spiders from what I have read. You will see half eaten ones, or ones with bites taken out. You'll also see polyps closing up or pinching off etc. That is the sign of these predators.

Whole polyps and sections missing overnight usually indicates either a fish eating them (Hippo Tangs or Fox Faces do this) or one of the predatory worms like the eunice worm will do that kind of damage in short order.

Got photos????
 
Whole polyps and sections missing overnight usually indicates either a fish eating them (Hippo Tangs or Fox Faces do this) or one of the predatory worms like the eunice worm will do that kind of damage in short order. said:
Do you have pic of this worm. I do have a gold spotted foxface but never noticed him eating polyps. That's why i think it is the worm or one of the above predators. I have a yellow coris wrasse, but might have to get a few more (maybe like peppermint shrimp, hit and miss with aptasia). You think there are any crabs that would eat any of these things (banded shrimp, emerald crab, arrow crab, etc)

Where can you obtain the Potassium Permanganate crystals?

Very helpful post, thanks by the way.
 
@derek4real wrote:
[quote="Whole polyps and sections missing overnight usually indicates either a fish eating them (Hippo Tangs or Fox Faces do this) or one of the predatory worms like the eunice worm will do that kind of damage in short order. said:
Do you have pic of this worm. I do have a gold spotted foxface but never noticed him eating polyps. That's why i think it is the worm or one of the above predators. I have a yellow coris wrasse, but might have to get a few more (maybe like peppermint shrimp, hit and miss with aptasia). You think there are any crabs that would eat any of these things (banded shrimp, emerald crab, arrow crab, etc)

Where can you obtain the Potassium Permanganate crystals?

Very helpful post, thanks by the way."]

You are very welcome.

Try it here.. there are other types too... some look like a centipede with the antennae etc.. basically anything that is not your standard bristle worm or peanut worm etc would be suspect.

http://oregonreef.com/sub_worm.htm

No, I don't think any hermits or anything would be effective... if they would, we would have heard about it by now I think. People are using Camel Back Shrimp to clean their corals infested with AEFW so they might be worth a shot. The principle there is starving them until they do eat them... imagine they would go for a juicy nudi too or some eggs.

Have you actually seen nudi's?? They are quite visible once you start looking. Look about an hour after lights out... check for colonies with some polyps open and a section closed, they close as they get crawled on or bit.

Your fox face could very well be the one eating the... even if you don't see it do it. Keep watching over a period of time.

PP can be obtained from Sears. I had to call the garden section and order the 6 oz bottles. It also comes in 4 lb jugs but that is way too much volume for use. Its used to recharge Iron Filtration units....
 
OMG!! what a picture? I hope that is not my issue. time will tell, I will be spending some close nights with my tank and observations.
 
I dip zoa's in a 1 quart of untreated tap water and 15 drops of lugols. During the dip, pick up the rock, shake it, flip it over etc. There are holes and unnels in your rocks that can create pockets that will hold saltwater so something can survive in there during a typical dipping. The way I dip kills almost everything, the worst thing Ive seen happen to the zoa's are whats called zoa blisters, lil clear bubbles that appear on the sides of the polyps. Only happened to a few of them and it didnt effect them.

What kind of fish do you have? There are reports of several common "reef safe" fish eating zoa's. Angels, Butterflies,Tangs, Foxfaces,Wrasses, and Ive also personally witnessed amphipods eating zoanthids.
 
i have the following:
med-lg Naso
med-lg Goldspotted foxface
3 x bangaii cardinals
2 x false percs
5 x blue chromis
Tri-Color Anthia
yellow coris wrasse
purple psdueo
med tomini tang
target mandrian

hermits, stars, snails
 
@derek4real wrote:
i have the following: med-lg Naso med-lg Goldspotted foxface 3 x bangaii cardinals 2 x false percs 5 x blue chromis Tri-Color Anthia yellow coris wrasse purple psdueo med tomini tang target mandrian hermits said:
I would be looking at the FoxFace...
 
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