Zoa munching nudis discussion <*split*>

[bimmerzs]

@Ashlar wrote:

Tell me about it, since I've been gone the wife's been telling me my zoa's have not been opening, after the meeting I remembered what she said and found nudi's munching away, have dipped then a couple of time and still seeing a few nudi's however.

Cheers,

 

[Ashlar]

Ugh, I feel your pain. We had them in Lisa's nano- took six weeks of dips / inspection / egg pulling to get rid of them.

 

[v320]

Ashlar" wrote:
I think Matt's presentation scared all of us and is making everyone take a closer look at all our pods, worms, and snails *grin*.


very true...
but better safe then sorry right...!? :?

@Ashlar wrote:

Wow, I never had a problem like that (knock on wood), but that sounds like a total pain...

 

[feasible]

@Matt wrote:

Oh we didn't need your presentation to find them! :shock: Bekah & I have been picking off nudis from a mess load of zoas we received from a member for the past 3 weeks.

Need to do some research on how to identify the eggs now that I think we have found most of them. :evil:

 

[Ashlar]

Zoa eating nudi eggs? They look like a little white spiral attached to the side of a zoa. So you have to inspect _each and every_ zoa. Ugh.

 

[feasible]

@Ashlar wrote:

Screw that! Maybe it is time to find something that likes nudi eggs as a treat.

 

[bimmerzs]

@feasible wrote:

Screw that! Maybe it is time to find something that likes nudi eggs as a treat."]

I heard that there is a certain kind of nudi that prey's of the type of nudi's that like zoa's, unfortunatedly that's all it eats so once it starves and dies it releases a soap like toxin in your tank....... :shock: All other critter's that eat them are most likly not reef safe. :wink:.... although a six-line may eat them.
Cheers,

 

[v320]

Ok, now you guys are freakin me out...

I've got all my new zoas in qt (aka my nano - lol - I'm letting them grow out before putting them in the big tank), but man, check every polyp?! :?

Does anyone have a pic of these guys!?
Were they in Matt's presentation?

Also Matt, what should I use as bait...?!

 

[DaveJ]

A few things about Zoa Nudis...

Suspected cycle from egg to hatch is 10-21 days. Dipping every 7 days is a good way to get them.

Nothing kills the eggs.. though the potassium pommergarate (sp) shows promise and I will be trying it out as my protective welcome dip to any new ones.

Dipping and inspecting any new additions is the best way to avoid infestation.

Once they are in your tank, they will lay eggs anywhere, not just on the colonies.

Yellow Coris, Green Coris, Leopard Wrasse and 6-Lines have been reliable additions to help. Not all eat them, but many reports of them doing it.

Your preventative dip should consist of RO water brought up to temp and ph, with Flat Worm Exit and a few drops of Lugols in the water. Dip and shake/twist for 5-10 minutes then put into either your QT or Regular Tank.

 

[feasible]

I split this off from the previous discussion of whelks to avoid two topic posting confusion.

 

[feasible]

So obviously the key is to QT and make sure to prevent eggs and nudis from getting into the main tank.

@DaveJ wrote:

So this would be over a long period of time, waiting for the eggs to hatch, dipping to kill and remove hatchlings, waiting for eggs to hatch, repeat dippings, later, rinse, repeat. Seems effective but how many 10-21 day cycles would you do to be sure you got them all?

@DaveJ wrote:

I have been interested in trying this after reading that article about removing nudis from m digitas. However, I seem to recall that it has really been untested and the effect on the zoas unknown?


@DaveJ wrote:

This is good to know and should go in a future FAQ.

 

[DaveJ]

@feasible wrote:

So this would be over a long period of time, waiting for the eggs to hatch, dipping to kill and remove hatchlings, waiting for eggs to hatch, repeat dippings, later, rinse, repeat. Seems effective but how many 10-21 day cycles would you do to be sure you got them all?

@DaveJ wrote:

I have been interested in trying this after reading that article about removing nudis from m digitas. However, I seem to recall that it has really been untested and the effect on the zoas unknown?


@DaveJ wrote:

This is good to know and should go in a future FAQ."]

If you do the weekly dippings, do it for a couple of months. As I mentioned they will lay eggs anywhere, but the hatchlings will need to find food and they don't hatch mature and laying eggs from what I have read (don't quote me on that). There is a period of time when they are not mature and the hope is you dip them before they do produce eggs.

QT won't do a lot unless you keep them in there for a few weeks. Unless you see all the eggs (and keep in mind they lay them anywhere) you'll just have another batch of offspring. What you want to do is reduce the 'chances' of getting them by dipping and keep them in QT so you can spot any new ones that hatch.

Actually if you read that article again they do mention no ill effects on the zoanthids briefly. Its an afterthought statement....

While that is not a endorsement, it is an indicator that they can tolerate the smaller doses. I have ordered a bottle of this stuff, if it works like it appeared in the article, this will be in every dip of zoas/palys and monti's from here on out at my house. I'll start with the cheaper frags of course

 

[feasible]

@DaveJ wrote:

I guess I glanced over that part. Where did you order your bottle from? I would be interested in experimenting as well.

 

[waterbeing]

I only read the topics above about the treatment and was wondering if it were potassium permangenate being used again. I used it many,many years ago when first trying saltwater (1977ish) and didn't note any of the mixture and/or concentrations. When I found the bottle of the dry chemical some time back I was wondering if it were still useful for anything.... now if I can find it again and maybe some will post the concentrations,etc and I might use it yet again. 8)

Doug

 

[Guest]

not to hijack the thread but cool little thing i remember from college :twisted:

mix potassium permangnate and glycerine

if you ever go camping bring these two...never need matches or worry about wet matches

http://genchem.chem.wisc.edu/demonstrations/Gen_Chem_Pages/06thermopage/reaction_of_potassium_perm.htm

 

[dscott59]

Dave is giving you very good info here...
Take it from someone that has alot of experience with this battle in a prop system.
Dip in lugols, inspect when zoos are closed, pull off what you see, look for white spriral egg sacks and peel off with a x-acto blade or tweezers, shake well, place back in QT or tank, rinse and repeat for 4 mos or so and you will get rid of these pesky suckers.
Yellow Coris and 6 line wrasse's help but wont eradicate them.
They will also take on the color of the zoos they are munching on so hard to detect. You can also get a flashlight out about an hr after lights out and go hunting for them. Once you learn how to detect them they are much easier to spot.

Good Luck
Dale

 

[DaveJ]

In identifying potential issues with a healthy zoa or paly colony, the first thing you notice is the closing of the polyps. If polyps are closed up during the day for example.... most zoos and palys will be open the entire day. If you see a colony opening and closing, inspect it closely. There are other things to look for such as sundial snails and even big pods that prey upon the polyps. However, a clear indicator of nudis is a few polyps closing at a time.

Now this is not 100% since some zoas and palys will close up for no reason for periods of time or to shed (part of the growing process) etc... but its something to watch for and look at them closely when it occurs.

Aside from spotting them or their eggs, seeing polyps turn white or translucent is key indicator for nudis and sundial snails as is a general decline in polyp count.