Trouble holding PH

jnmarshall

Premium Member
I have a new saltwater tank I set up last month and have been adding livestock. I am fighting a PH problem where it keeps falling every day. I was using proper Ph 8.2 to raise it back. The LFS recommended Buffer Max so I've been using that for almost two weeks. The PH still drops to 7.6-7.8 within a day or two. What else should I look for or consider?
 
Give us a little more info about your setup (type of hardware, reef ready tank, and etc.) and I would recommend some pickling lime (Kalkwasser) for raising the PH instead of using the "expensive" stuff your using. [smilie=wink.gif]

Here's a link for some info on kalk:
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-01/rhf/index.php
 
pH should really be self-stabilizing as long as your alkalinity is at the right level and you have proper aeration. Have you tested your alkalinity level? Also, what kind of aeration do you have? Do you have a skimmer? Or powerheads to agitate the surface? I've you have all this and pH still drops, try opening a window or two to drive excess CO2 from your house. This, along with the proper aeration, should push your pH up.

In the 3.5 years I've had my reef tank, I've never had to do anything (other than maintain my alkalinity level and aerate with a skimmer) to control my pH level. It just happens. :)

Good luck!
 
@blide wrote:
40 gallon FOWLR. I hope to someday maybe upgrade to reef or add some coral, but not yet. Substrate is a mix of about 10lbs crushed coral and 15lbs of seaflor. About 40lbs of live rock mostly tufa and fiji. Fluval filter, and marineline powerhead/jet. Some decorative shells and dead coral from shores of Cozemel. Using Oceanic Reef salt. Contents are a pair of clowns, 6 line wasser, miller bleeny, green crabs, cone snails and reef snails.
 
Hi,

Your alk level will help hold up your PH, they follow each other typically. It's like joelq mentioned, make sure your water chemistry is balanced and you have proper aeration and your ph should fall in-line. I would stop using the buffer crap until you find the root cause of your issue, some can cause unintended result's.

Cheers,
 
@jnmarshall wrote:
Sooo I guess this is where some noob questions come. I thought PH was the test for alkalinity and acidicity? If not said:
There's a highly technical paper on exactly what Alkalinity is here: http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2002/2/chemistry, but for lay people (me), Alkalinity is basically a measure of how hard/easy it is to move a solution's pH. So if your Alkalinity is within the proper range, your pH should be relatively stable. If it's not, then your pH will move around quite a bit. Keep in mind, however, that in reality, your water's pH will be lowest when your lights are off, and highest when your lights are on, which is normal, so don't expect your pH to just stay at a certain number.

You can certainly do tests for pH, but I find that it is much more useful to test for alkalinity. Everytime I've checked for pH, it's always around 8.2 (that rose wine type color), which is why I don't bother to check it anymore. :)

As bimmerzs mentioned, hold off on the buffers and have your water tested. Specifically, test your alkalinity level. If it's not right, then spend your energy getting that right (it's easy), and most likely, you will need to bring it up (rather than down) which is very easy to deal with. Post your numbers back here and we'll guide you in the right direction for next steps. Resist the urge to dump stuff in your tank that the LFS recommends. :)

Also, do you have a skimmer? And what powerheads do you have? These will be your main aerating devices and are also very important in maintaining pH.
 
@jnmarshall wrote:
How do I test AND adjust"Alk"? I did a search and all hits refer to PH testing and adjusting. said:
There are test kits specifically for testing Alkalinity. I use the API test kit and it works well. Your fish store should also be able to test this for free; just bring approx 1/2 cup of tank water into the store.

To adjust alkalinity up, you can dose either sodium bicarbonate (common baking soda - the Arm & Hammer kind works perfectly) or sodium carbonate (baking soda that has been baked in an oven for an hour). You dilute a certain amount into RODI water, then dump that into a high flow area of your tank. To adjust alkalinity down, you would need to do a water change, or just wait - alkalinity will drop over time.

To find out how much baking soda or baked baking soda to add to bring your alkalinity up to a certain level, you can use the calculator on this page: http://reef.diesyst.com/flashcalc/flashcalc.html.
 
@joelq wrote:
Thanks for the info. Looks like I may need to checkout another LFS. I've always used baking soda with my old freshwater tanks. I was advised on two occasions by the LFS to use the buffers instead as it will adjust and stabilize the PH without stressing the fish.
 
@jnmarshall wrote:
Thanks for the info. Looks like I may need to checkout another LFS. I've always used baking soda with my old freshwater tanks. I was advised on two occasions by the LFS to use the buffers instead as it will adjust and stabilize the PH without stressing the fish. said:
I'm sure they had good intentions, but a lot of times, LFSes jump to conclusions and recommend fixes before they have a complete picture of your tank's current status.
 
Thank you all! I should have followed my instincs from experience. I added baking soda Friday to raise the ph. It has now been holding perfect between 8-8.2 all weekend.
 
Good deal! Still make sure and check your alkalinity, though, to make sure it's within range.
 
@jnmarshall wrote:
Thank you all! I should have followed my instincs from experience. I added baking soda Friday to raise the ph. It has now been holding perfect between 8-8.2 all weekend. said:
Glad to hear things are ok. [smilie=smile.gif] On the reef side of things there ia a saying that you should always remember..... never chase PH . Low or high ph is always a byproduct and not a root cause so please keep that in the back of your mind going forward. [smilie=clapping.gif]

Cheers,
 
@joelq wrote:
Good deal! Still make sure and check your alkalinity said:
I got the API kh tester. The reading is 16 (16 drops to turn it yellow). I should be ok and just let it drop natually. No more buffers.
 
@jnmarshall wrote:
[I]@joelq wrote:[/I][quote="Good deal! Still make sure and check your alkalinity said:
I got the API kh tester. The reading is 16 (16 drops to turn it yellow). I should be ok and just let it drop natually. No more buffers."]


Don't take this the wrong way but this is a perfect example of why you should never chase Ph. If that is 16dkh, then it is very good that you caught this as a level that high can take out coral's. I suggest a few larger waterchanges to knock that down to a less dangerous level....thats pretty dang high and may take too long to drop on it's own.

Cheers,
 
@bimmerzs wrote:
[I]@jnmarshall wrote:[/I][quote="[I]@joelq wrote:[/I][quote="Good deal! Still make sure and check your alkalinity said:
I got the API kh tester. The reading is 16 (16 drops to turn it yellow). I should be ok and just let it drop natually. No more buffers."]


Don't take this the wrong way but this is a perfect example of why you should never chase Ph. If that is 16dkh, then it is very good that you caught this as a level that high can take out coral's. I suggest a few larger waterchanges to knock that down to a less dangerous level....thats pretty dang high and may take too long to drop on it's own.

Cheers,"]
I'm going to have to look into water options if I add coral. For fun I decided to check a fresh batch using city water. It was between 19 and 20. The new test kit also included calcium. It seems to be perfect at 400.
 
@jnmarshall wrote:
I'm going to have to look into water options if I add coral. For fun I decided to check a fresh batch using city water. It was between 19 and 20. The new test kit also included calcium. It seems to be perfect at 400. said:
High alk readings in tap water are not uncommon, you are using ro/di water hopefully and if not it would probably be a good thing to do. There are several reasons that tap can read high alk, could or could not be a true reading depending on a few factors but can really cause you to skew your water chemistry trying to compensate. http://www.freedrinkingwater.com/water-education2/74-alkalinity-water.htm

Cheers,
 
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