Tank temperature issues

[Andrew76021]

Not an unusual post on this forum, but I have been trying to do something to get my temperature down as it is consistently 82.5 to 83 degrees. My tank has a hooded halide/vho system that has fans on both ends. I also have several other fans in the canopy to cool the water surface and to move warm air out of it. In the sump, I have the Honeywell Turbo fan that was recommended on this sight, blowing straight down on the refugium. I look at my temperature this morning before leaving for work and before the lights came on, my water temperature is still 82-83 degrees. The reason I checked it ws because I got a new digital thermometer and wanted to see how low it got overnight. I was amazed to see that it had not dropped at all. This leads me to beleive that it is a combination of the protein skimmer pump (small), the return pump, and the two circulation pumps in the tank that are creating the heat.

Am I off base?

BTW, my tank inhabitants, fish and corals are doing good aside from the snails that only seem to last about a month or two.

 

[kwl1763]

Probably not off base at all. List your equipment (brands, type, etc) and we can probably give you some alternative to lower the heat.

 

[albert7753]

Looking into my crystal ball .... I see a chiller in your future . What size tank is it ?

 

[kwl1763]

@albert7753 wrote:

I doubt it. Unless it's really big there is rarely a need for one. If your smart about your heat management with fans, running efficient pumps, etc it's rarely a problem that needs a chiller.

Also let us know the conditions of the room where you keep it. Does it stay a constant temp, etc. etc.

 

[tnn1567]

Andrew,

Even with a small tank, I used to struggle with keeping my temps down. I tried all sorts of method. By the time I added the cost of all the other equipments, I could have purchase myself a chiller.

Moveover, you will constantly have water evap since you are blowing the fan directly to the water. With a chiller, it's nice to top off the water every 4 days vs everyday.

What are you going to do when the summer heat come around? IMO, I would recommend a chiller. Peace of mind IMO.

 

[Andrew76021]

My tank is a 75 gallon with approximately a 20 gallon sump. The lighting system is a hooded 2 x 150 14k and 2 x 95 Super Actinic VHO. The water movement in the display is from a Maxi-Jet 600 and a Seio M820. The return pump is unknown because I bought it with the system and am not at home to take a look into the sump. The protein skimmer is a ProClear 75 and am not sure about the pump size, but it is rather small.

My parameters are all in line out side of the temp and my fish and corals are doing great. I jsut started SPS several months ago, and they are all doing great.

Ph- 8.2
Salinity- 1.024
Calcium- 440
DKH- 11
Nitrates/Nitrites= 0

 

[Andrew76021]

@tnn1567 wrote:

With my water movement/fans I get quite a bit of evaporation per day. As a guess, I would say 1 to 1.5 gallons a day. It is just odd that my water temperatures are just as high without my halides on as it is with them off.

 

[tnn1567]

Andrew,

Last question, what type of pumps are you using? Example, I use a Mag 24, and two Mag 18. It keeps my water warm during the winter time. During the summer time, I take them out of water since they produce lots of heat.

If your lights are off for hours, then it must be your equipment within the water.

 

[Andrew76021]

@tnn1567 wrote:

Tri,

So if the obvious is the answer (equipment) and fans seem to do little to difference, can I have a successful tank with temperatures in the 82-84 range? All of my corals are doing great. All of my fish are doing great. My inverts, crabs and shrimp, are all doing fine. The only thing that has been affected, as far as I know, are the snails. I even have two fighting conches that have not died, yet 40-50 snails have. I was really hoping not to have to get a chiller for several reasons.

1.cost
2.space
3.noise
4.electricty usage

Andrew

 

[Andrew76021]

@tnn1567 wrote:

What is the difference in degrees that it changes when you take them out of the water?

Andrew

 

[DaveJ]

Couple of problems that I see with your setup, not problems really, but contributing issues...

First you have a cap on the tank. Even with fans, that is going to create a hotbox type of situation.

Equipment inside the sump etc.....

I would look at doing the following to help reduce your temps, remove the cap off the tank, no canopies at all, just lights and an open tank top (eggcrate is okay. I would also go external pumps if you have that option, or go Quiet ones or Enheims.

I would also check your heaters (unplug them) just to make sure they are not popping on by mistake.

As far as your temps.. they are a little high and I wouldn't want to maintain them like that on a constant basis day in day out. Also, what is the ambient temp of the house?

 

[Flamenco-t]

I agree with Dave..

Check your heater and use eggcrate versus a cap.

I have had to deal with this issue twice in the last few months

On the reef tank, I found the culprit were the combination of not big enough fan and my Jager heater got stuck. My temp used to be 82 with the lights off and 84 with the ligths on.

My solution was to replaced the fan with honeywell turbo fan directly above the sump blowing to the fuge and unplug my heater.

Right now, with the fan on at # 1 setting, my tank stays aroun 78-80 with the lights on and off and room temp around 78 degree.


On the freshwater setup, since my FW fish are huge jumper (arowana, bichir, clown knifes) I have no other option but to use a heavy glass top. What I did was to install 2 honeywell fans right the water level and use an airline tubing to prop the glass top about 1/4" and to my surprise, the tank stays at 79-81 degrees versus 83-84 before I added the honeywell fan and prop the glass top..

So it can happen, check those two factors and let us know..

 

[Andrew76021]

Thanks for all of the tips guys.

I don't think removing the canopy is the issue because the temperature is still at 83-84 in the morning when the lights have been off for 10 hours. I have 3 normal fans and a another fan strip with 4 small fans moving the hot air out of the canopy. (Not to mention I spent hours and hours custom building that canopy)

The heater that I have in my sump is set at 80 but will unplug it for the next couple of days to see if that is the culprit. I hope so as that would make more sense. Since it is in the sump, I cannot see when it is on or off. My house temperature is in the 76-78 degree temperature year round as my stay-at-home wife is uncomfortable and complains if it is higher or lower than that. Hello $450 electric bill.

 

[psteeleb]

82-84 is okay, 80-84 is probably not

Stress is generally going to be caused more by the daily temp swing then the average max. There are some critters that do not tolerate higher temps, like cool water some snails, lots of stars, some corals etc. If they are from cooler waters the warmer temps accelerate their metabolism faster then they can take in food and essentially they just starve to death. That may be what happened to your snails

Best thing to do, is know where your tank inhabitants come from and try to stay in that range. We as reefers mix allot, and, therefore can't replicate all conditions at once. 84 IMO is pushing the upper limit on some corals that we tend to want to keep but some people are very successful in the 83-85 range

If you want to avoid the chiller, try to get your heat generators out of the tank, as Tri suggests and work on evaporative cooling by increasing air motion across the water surfaces, be it the display or the fuge. If you can get to where you max around 82-83 I'd set your heaters at 80-81 to see if you can maintain a two degree swing

good luck

Pete

 

[Hankzilla]

I recently added 2 pumps in my new tank to help with water circulation until I choose a permanent method. After adding a RIO and a Quiet one pump, I saw about a 2 degree increase in temperature. I took the RIO out and by the next day saw almost a degree drop. I initially drill my refug for external return and skimmer pumps.

cent and a half from a newbe

Henry

 

[kwl1763]

Honestly from all your saying I'm really guessing a heater that's off a bit. unplug it and report back. It makes no sense that your temp doesn't change with your halides off.

82-84 is OK but upper limits. the problem with keeping it that high is twofold

1) It leaves no room for error a couple degree tick up and things will die. Could be from a fan dying, whatever, just to close for comfort

2) the warmer your water is the less O2 it can hold so if you have a power failure you can quickly consume all the oxygen out of th water and start suffering losses. Also many fish such as Anthias needs super high levels and again you get real close at those temps to not providing it.

 

[psteeleb]

very valid points Keith

82-84 does take away that degree of margin needed in the event of something going wrong

 

[Andrew76021]

@kwl1763 wrote:

I will unplug the heater later tonight to see what kind of reading it gives. Thanks for the pointers.

 

[hitillidie]

@kwl1763 wrote:

Hello Andrew, we're neighbors :lol:

This is the same thing I was thinking, My tank drop down to about 77 degrees at night. No reason for you temp to maintain during the night.
80-84 is high this time of year, noway you'll maintain that during the HOT summer months. So, you need to get this in check.

 

[Andrew76021]

Well. it turned out to be the stinkin' heater that was causing all of my temperature issues. I unplugged it and the tank slowly moved down to 78.5 degrees and has remained there for the past two days. Thanks for helping me solve this issue. Had I known it 6 months ago, I could have saved a ton of snails, some fish, and topoff water. Since the heater was removed, the evaporation has really slowed down. I guess a heater on all day and night can increase the evaporation.

Any suggestions on heater replacements? I have read that other members use two heaters to reduce problems if one of them goes bad.

Thanks again.

Andrew