Stray electricity

R

ReefNut2010

So I got the shock of a lifetime !!! LITRERALLY !!! I don't have GFCI outlets and have never had a problem before, but today I forgot to take my jewlery off and stuck my hand in the sump ( Yes I know, Stupid with a capital C) and POW.......got zapped !!!
So is stray electricity always in the aquarium or might it be something else? I noticed a bit of it after I switched to a new bulb in my UV sterilizer. Other than the obvious GFCI outlet switch and switching everything off everytime I put my hands in the water, what else can I do to prevent future reminders of " yes, you're an idiot [smilie=rofl.gif] "
 
something is leeching electricity... turn things off one at a time .. and test it out.. see if it occurs.. if it does you found your source
 
Borrowing a voltage meter and then turning things on one at a time till you see voltage in the water seems a nice safe plan...
 
Not sure of the UV unit you have but if it's like mine the bulb goes inside a sleeve, the sleeve slides inside the UV housing. Mine has a rubber seal that keeps the water inside the housing so it doesn't leak down to the connector at the bulb. Short story, turn off the UV unit and check for current/voltage in the tank then if it's the source, check the seal. Invest in a grounding probe along with the GFCI. [smilie=smile.gif]

Cheers,
 
Tested water with everything connected and got a reading of 5 volts(more or less). It sure did not feel like 5 volts when I got zapped !! Funny thing is, I would disconnect certain things & voltage would rise rather than fall. When I disconnected the UV filter it dropped to below 1/2 a volt, so I take it it was my UV unit (as suspected). Now, I read putting a probe in the water could make it worse and basicly just gives the current a place to go. I don't feel a thing unless I have metal on me (jewelry, ect). How much stray electricity is to much? I think you can't rid the tank of all of it. I think I'll be turning off all power when I stick my hand in the water from now on.
 
@ReefNut2010 wrote:
Tested water with everything connected and got a reading of 5 volts(more or less). It sure did not feel like 5 volts when I got zapped !! Funny thing is said:
Having stray current is detrimental to fish, coral's and you. The goal is to have as little stray voltage/cuuent as possible, it wasn't the 5Volts that you felt but more likely the current. Your first task is findind and eliminating the cause then protect yourself and your tank by first, installing GFCI protection and a grounding rod. What you don't want is to have current/voltage leaking into your tank without a path to ground, because if you do it is waiting for you (or someone else) to touch or stick their hand in the water which would then turn you into the grounding rod as the current find's the shortest path to ground. Figure out the problem and remove it, you could be risking your life here bro.

Cheers,
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@ReefNut2010 wrote:
Tested water with everything connected and got a reading of 5 volts(more or less). It sure did not feel like 5 volts when I got zapped !! said:
You'd never feel a 5V potential across any part of your body except for maybe your tongue, earlobe and such--unless you are unusually conductive--which you are not [smilie=wink.gif].

What you're measuring and what you felt are likely very different potentials. The reason is because the path through your body is obviously not the same path you provided with the meter probes. The trick here is going to be knowing how to take the measurement. Where did you put your leads to take the measurement? What setting, (AC..DC..etc.) did you set the meter up to measure?

When you were shocked, what were you touching? Where on your body did you feel the shock? That will be a big clue.

What kind of lighting to do you have?

would disconnect certain things & voltage would rise rather than fall said:
Not surprising at all.

I'll echo the "one at a time" recommendations, and add that you need to understand how to take the measurement. If you tell me what you're doing, list all electronic devices in or near the tank, I might be able to step you through it. If you live close in the Plano area, I can stop by and help you find the problem.

Don't install a ground probe until you have identified the problem.
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Unfortunately I live in California, but thanks for the offer. Honestly, you guys are making me concerned because I don't think I have this down right. How do I measure this current? I basically took the meter, grounded it and stuck the red probe (prong) into the area of the water where I was shocked. Not much of a reading though. Like I said before....what I felt was not 5 volts. Felt like a lot more!! I have a lot of stuff connected. One Reefkeeper light controller with 2 PC4s (4 outlets a piece)Two Metal Halide lights (175 watts a piece), T5 lighting(160 watts), Moonlights, 2 fans for heat dissipation in canopy,4 powerheads,1 titanium heater,1 chiller (not working...kind of makes me wonder),ATO unit and UV sterilizer. As you can see, quite a bit of stuff, going to 17 outlets !! Things that are not in the water....are they a potential problem as well? Now I'm concerned I did not address this correctly. What do I do.....other than get a pro? How do I get to the problem and solve it. I' stuck my hand in there today (minus the jewlery) and didn't feel a thing. Granted, I don't know squat about electrical circuits or electricity , but I sure want to solve this issue. Don't want my fish to suffer & I don't want to get zapped again....pretty scary !

By the way, when I was zapped I was trying to remove a sponge from a baffle and I felt it most where my jewlery was. My hand which was in the water (ring and bracelet) & my neck (necklace).
 
I just disconnected the Chiller as I'm kinda thinking it might be the problem and not the UV filter. Here's why.... I bought it used. First issue, it was leaking. I sealed it (no more leaks). Then when the tank water got hot , it would turn on then completely off. I had to disconnect it to get power to it again. Finally I noticed it was not turning on at all (no power whatsoever). What do you guys think?
 
Sorry for the long response--hopefully there's something here that will help.

You need to make sure your meter is set to measure AC current. I assume it's a modern digital meter?

Measuring to earth ground, like you are, is a reasonable place to start. With your meter set on AC current (milli-amperes or "mA") take a tank-to-earth-ground measurement in several places--sump, tank, etc. Be very careful not to touch anything (water, insulated conductor, earth ground, etc.) when you do this. Make sure the area and you are completely dry and free of salt creep. You'll most likely see some current flow--probably less than 5mA if all is "normal". If it's much larger than that, then you might have ground-relative shock risk--that is if you put your hand in the tank while some other part of your body is grounded, then you might feel a shock.

Next take current measurements in various spots in your tank--one probe in the display, the other in the sump, for example. Jot down where and how much current you measure. Taking measurements in the vicinity of pumps, heaters, chillers, etc (one probe near one device, the other probe near another). Be sure to measure near your pH/orp/conductivity probes as well. Also measure current from surface of the water nearest your lighting--both to ground and to other devices.

Yes, things don't have to be in direct contact with the water to cause problems. One notable example is that of florescent lighting--which is why I asked about your lighting system. Florescent lighting operates at high voltages and frequencies. This fact enables conductance via capacitive coupling. Basically this means that electrons can move even though there is on direct conduction going on.

Try to remember what objects you were in contact with when you felt the shock. Obviously, part of you was in contact with the water via your skin/jewelry. Where you leaning on something? Standing on wet ground? Did you have another part of your body in contact with a conductor of some kind--even it was insulated--a power cord perhaps? Another part of the tank? For you to feel a shock, you have to have at least two parts of your body exposed (or very near) something that can conduct electricity and has different electrical potentials. Exposing only one part isn't enough to be shocked--for example I can grab the 120V hot wire in my house and will be fine as long as I'm not touching anything else and my feet are insulated from ground (via dry rubber soles). So whenever you feel a shock you have to think of an entry and exit point for the electrons.

That's strange behavior for a chiller. It sounds like a separate problem you'll want to solve but it could also be at least part of your electrical problem. Your chillers heat exchanger may be grounded to earth--either intentionally, or via a wiring problem or salt creep or slow leak. Take measurements as near to the heat exchanger as you can as described above.

You also might need to take multiple measurements with different combinations of devices on and off. Each combination can setup a unique current flow scenario. Having something on might cause certain measurements to actually be less than if it was on.

Until you solve the problem, I'd recommend completely disconnecting everything before you put your body parts in the water--even a finger. Don't worry about your fish just yet. If they aren't visibly stressed, you probably have plenty of time to find and fix the problem. Again, don't intentionally ground your tank just yet. That could actually cause problems for your fish and yourself. If it were me, I'd also disconnect the chiller until you are convinced it's working right.
 
Shawn,

Thanks for your reply. I will use your recommendations and follow through to try to find the problem. If I can't find the problem, I'll get someone who knows what they're doing, even if I have to pay them. I disconnected the chiller since is not working at all (no power), and probably part of the problem. I see buying used things for your system is really not a good option, as these appear to be the items causing the issue! (UV sterilizer, Chiller)

Buy new even if it means paying more. It could mean the difference between having issues or not !

When you say..... " Be very careful not to touch anything (water, insulated conductor , earth ground, etc.) when you do this". What do you mean? You don't mean the meter probes right? Otherwise, how do I take the measurements. Sorry, learning as I go. I'm going to be doing some extensive reading on the subject, as I really want to nip this in the butt and quickly.
 
I'm just saying be careful. Try not to touch anything--even if you think it couldn't possibly conduct electricity. 99% of the time an insulated wire is perfectly safe, but not 100% of the time and especially not where you have florescent lighting and saltwater in close proximity.

Of course the meter is problaby ok to touch [smilie=wink.gif]

Good Luck!
 
I found the problem ( I hope )!! The quartz sleve to my UV sterilizer was broken at the bottom, so water was entering the sleve and coming into contact with the bulb. I even saw some drops of water on the connector. Ordered a new quartz sleve. I hope this ends my troubles with electricity. I still need to take my Chiller to get fixed. I don't trust this one ither, so it is staying disconnected.
 
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