size of qt - updated - more questions

psteeleb

Premium Member
I want to get a couple more fish but I know I have ich in the tank so I've been putting it off. The fish I have seem to be fairly immune or at least resistive to the ich but I'm thinking seriously of Qting them all and letting the tank go fallow for 6 weeks

Question is - how large a q tank should I get for:
3 yellow tangs
1 regal tang
1 coral beauty
1 lawnmower bl
2 green chromis
2 false percs
1 bi color psudochromis
forgot to add - 1 green target mandarin

I'm thinking a 55 but it may be too small

my thoughts are to get a HOB skimmer like a remora
and run a sponge filter - I'll run it in my sump for a couple weeks first
water changes maybe every week

and load the thank or tub up with large PVC drain pipe

need ideas and thoughts on this as I don?t want to overly stress out my fish if I decide to do this
 
I'd go with at least a 75...not much more than a 55, you can still use a HOB skimmer like a remora and it give a bit more room...those few extra inches of width could mean a lot to those tangs!

For that many fish - for that long - I'd say the bigger the better! After all, looks like they're used to a 270 - if your signature is up-to-date.
 
On the skimmer - If you're planning on treating the QT with hypo, remember that the lower the salinity, the less effective a skimmer will be...

I'll defer to others on the sizing question though, but wanted to at least point that out...
 
any other recomendations for filtration then?

If I do this I may even go with one of those large farm tubs
 
I'm not sure about the right size. But you may want to consider more than one tank. If some fish are more aggressive or just have personality conflicts, I'd get some more tanks. Maybe three 20 gallons would work for your setup...but you know your fish better than us...

Just my 2 cents.
 
I like the idea of a couple smaller tanks - I suppose I could plumb them together to avoid duplicate filtration heaters etc.

I have another problem - how do I deal with feeding the target mandarin and lawnmower blenny. The target is doing fine with the pods in my 270, I have not witnessed him eating anything else. I have seen the lawnmower occasionally go after Nori, so he may be okay.

I suspect I could try the target on baby brine, your thoughts on this would be helpful.

Or, given Target Mandarins are essentially immune to Ich, with their skin type and body mucus, do you think leaving him in the tank would still break the cycle? I suspect it would be very difficult for the Ich to complete the life cycle if it is left with only the Target Mandarin as a potential host during the parasitic stage. Your thoughts on this are also appreciated.

thanks
 
I had to QT about a year ago and simply couldn't catch my two chromis (who have since jumped INTO the small feeding cup that I use) and I left my mandarin in the display tank as well. Of course, I understand that my tank is not fallow now, but I did have a cleaner shrimp that the chromis really liked to visit.

My mandarin never "contracted" the ich and everything has been fine since. I'd definitely not risk starving the little ones!
 
Below are a few ideas for feeding the Mandarin while in QT.

1. Lots of baby brine shrimp - like adding some to the tank every day or so
2. basically transfer pods from the main tank to the QT tank.
  • Do this by using filter floss, rock, etc and moving it from the main tank (or sump) to the QT tank on a regular basis (every day or so). Then take what ever you use out of the QT tank and either throw it away or clean in. To clean in, set it bucket, pour boiling water on it, let soak for a couple of hours, then dry completely (days or hours in an over at 175+). This will kill the ich. Then place back in main tank to be re-populated before starting the process again. You will need a lot of whatever you use.
 
Thanks for all the good advice. I am still not sure if I even want to do this as my main intent here is for the safe keeping of "future fish". I would eventually like to add a purble and PB tang.

I had what I would call one Ich outbreak a couple months ago with no losses. Since this outbreak I slightly increased garlic use and added ozone to help knock down the Ich in three of the four life cycle phases.

I would have to claim my efforts as somewhat successful, as, since then I only get an occasional sighting on my Regal Tang and sometimes the Coral Beauty. Even then, the fish never seem to be that much bothered by it. But, I know it's there. If I didn't plan on adding fish, I would probably just live with it in this somewhat constrained state.

Catching the fish will be an issue. Although I have the say the tangs will be easy as they think the fish trap is a open bar and all crowd in there when ever I have it in the tank. The mandarin and lawnmower will be the hardest as they pretty much don't bother with prepared foods so are not drawn to the trap. Im not sure of the Chromis, but have to expect they will be a pain to catch.

Not that I would want to starve the Mandarin, but does anyone know how long they can go with minimal or no food?

I'll probably go with the baby brine (assuming he will eat it) and posibly split the my concerns by only hypoing him for say 2-3 weeks.

I suspect in a hypo tank - the pods and brine would not survive long even if I add them everyday.
 
I picked up a used 100, now looking for advice on filtration without live rock, I bought a sponge filter and was thinking of getting a remora HOT
for my 29 some day to use as a seahorse tank

here are some links I've been reading
http://www.petsforum.com/personal/trevor-jones/hyposalinity.html

a DIY filter - any comments
http://www.petsforum.com/personal/trevor-jones/simplebiofilter.html

Also would like feed back on what to feed a fallow tank

any other ideas?
thanks

Pete
 
Pete: Sounds like you are pretty well prepared for this saga. I went through it a while back and successfully hypoed 8: small fish in a fifty gallon. I kept a journal and documented the little adventure well because eventually I intend to use the material for a book. Here are a few things you need to keep in mind. Because you are going to be working bare bottom without any substrate at low salinity keeping up your bio-filter is somewhat of a challenge, but it can be done. The hundred gallon is going to be hard to keep up with all the water changes you will have to do, several smaller tanks would have probably been a better choice, like three twenties etc, but if you've already bought the tank I'd definitely use it. You may want to pick up a couple of the 10 gallon setups or a 20 gallon setup from Wally World or PetsMart anyway. They are pretty cheap, and are much easier to work with.

Also, you should go to Fish Paradise in Ft. Worth see Mr. Ly, and buy about 10 to 20 bucks worth of his caulerpa. This stuff is working alive with pods. Also, while you are in the area go over to Frank?s and pick up several bottles of the TurboStart 900. Don?t get the big bottle, get two or three of the small bottles, they will keep better in the frig. Once you open this stuff it goes bad quickly, but it is really helpful with hypo.

But, right now while you are gathering your supplies you should be soaking several big sponges in your fuge. You need to do this for as long as possible, two weeks if your fish are living with the crypt okay, of course if they are not doing well you will have to work faster. DNA has those big black cylindrical tube filters. I think they are about $15.00 for two, but these are perfect for what you need. Ly has them also, but they are a lot more expensive there, but might be worth saving some gas to get them from him. You can slip these perfectly over the intakes of you power heads and skimmer pump after they are well seeded from your affected tank. I kept one on the intake tube of the power filter and the MJ1200 to the Aqua C skimmer, and one stuffed inside a big power filter box. They worked like a charm seeded and soaked in the TS 900.

As Brian mentioned, the skimmer is not going to help you that much once your down near 009 SG. But it will help during the trip down and of course back up. If you already have it use it, if not, I?d spend the money instead on several of the small sponge type power filters. Over kill on filtration will help you here, the more the better. Keep the filter boxes stuffed with seeded sponge material and use the tube filters on all PHs. After the filter material has been in your sump for a week or so, add it to you HTs and pour the small bottle of TS 900 into the filter box and in three days your HT will be fully cycled. But with all the water changes and dropping the SG you will have to replenish this several times over the six to eight weeks. If you use the 100 gallon you will need more of the TS 900 I?m sure, but this stuff will keep your tirtes and ammonia zero, and the Caulerpa and water changes will help with trate export. Trates will be a battle the whole time, but fortunately fish are pretty resilient to trates at low SG.

While your display is fallow, keep temps and salinity high so the existing crypt will live out its life cycle quicker rather than going dormant. I?d try for at least 82 degrees and 1.027 if you can get by with it. I don?t know what corals you have, but I ran my two reef tanks between 83 and 84 degrees at 1.028 for six weeks with no problems, but I mostly just had softies, some LPSs. This may not be advisable for sps. However if your corals are looking okay I?d chance it. Watch Xenia and GSP, they are pretty good barometers, usually the first to show stress if the water is too salty.

Also, don?t forget to feed your fallow tanks. Your cleaner crew will need food. We lost an arrowhead crab, simply because I forgot to feed one of the fallow tanks.

Keep one of the small tanks full of Ly?s pod laced macro. If you are fortunate enough to trap the Mandarin and blenny, keep them in the macro tank and keep the caulerpa full of gut loaded baby brine shrimp and/or gut loaded ghost shrimp. Those fish will be in heaven in the macros. However, I doubt you will be able to trap these two fish, and they will probably be fine in the display. But if you end up leaving these two fish I?d go the whole eight weeks on the fallow tank just to be sure. If the little mandarin has even one parasite hidden inside a gill cover it could perpetuate the life cycle and all you work will be in vane. Catch them if you can.

I?ve learned a few tricks about trapping fish also. Here are some tips. Right now, as you are preparing for this ordeal: gathering supplies, sponges soaking in the sump, qt tanks cycling etc, your trap or traps should be in the tank, so the fish are getting use to it/them. Place the trap in an area where you usually feed from. Only feed in the trap, no where else. When you are just a few days from being ready, stop feeding the tank completely. Don?t put any food whatsoever in the display for a few days, two or three at least. Let you fish get really hungry, then when you are ready, take a long turkey baster and squirt food only inside the trap. This way you will get them for sure.

For difficult to trap fish there other tricks. You can use other things as bait. If you have a clown hosting anything, you can put his host in the trap. I lured my maroon into the trap with Frogspawn he was hosting in. After you?ve caught all but the LMB and/or Mandarin, you may be able to stuff the trap with the pod loaded caulerpa, and gut loaded brine shrimp.

Good luck with this, and please keep us posted.
 
great advice - I'm probably at least a couple weeks from doing this

more questions:

shoud I wait until ready plus two weeks to start the sponge filters in my fuge/sump or will they become trate generators in my main if kept in there longer?

can i just "soak" the sponges for the initial 2 weeks or do i need to hook them up to PHs?

why they extra Ts 900, I would have thought once cycled it's good to go?

how many spoge filters do you think will be enough?

I have one large filter, and I was going to make that DIY bio ball filter, or are the sponge filter just better? I'll plan on picking up a couple of those tube filters - I've seen them at DNA

how ofter do you think I will need to be doing water changes - I was thinking once a week

can i assume then that the Caulerpa will make it through the hypo? or did I interpet this wrong

do you think i would b better to hypo the maddarin and LMB in a seperate smaller tank (assuming I can catch them)?

thanks a bunch fot the help
 
Pete,

I have a 20g and stand, it's not real pretty, but you are more than welcome to use it for the 6 weeks until you are finished with the QT process. I am not using it. I was considering donating to the Tank Emergency Team anyway.

Good Luck,
Gail
 
Pete: Get those filters soaking right away. It really takes a while to get good bacterial growth going. It can be done in a few days in an emergency, but in your case, the longer you soak them the better. The little bit of trates they make won't be much of a problem in the big display. When you take them out, don't even squeeze them out, just add them to the HT trates and all. Let the caulerpa have the trates. You'll probably be doing a water change before you put your fish in anyway. In Hypo trates is not so much a problem; trites and ammonia is the enemy.

The reason for the TS900 is once you start lowering your salinity it's hard to keep the bio-filter stable, especially with no substrate and no crew. You will have to siphon up food fragments after each feeding. This is why I recommend feeding from a lettuce clip only, it is easier to clean up and makes less mess in the HT. Clip table shrimp and/or squid soaked heavily in garlic and Kent Zoe before you put it in the tank. Start feeding your fish this way now, train them to eat from the clip in the display while you are cycling the HT. This is a good way to feed and makes it easy to trap them later. The reason you drop salinity slowly is for the bio-filter, it's not so much for the fish. Fish handle the drop fine, but get stressed out if you raise the salinity too quick. But if you drop down to 009 too quick you will lose the bio-filter. The TS900 just helps you get it going again quickly.

I was in a situation much like yours, where I knew the tanks were infested, but all the fish were immune and living with it. So you have time on your side, it's not like you have to get all the fish down to 009 tomorrow. Fish can handle the drop fine. In fact I believe Feener recommends dropping it right away, almost like a freshwater dip; it's bringing it back up that has to be done really slowly. However, since you have time you should do everything slowly.

You might want to look this over when you get a chance:
Crypt & Hypo
 
I got the sponge filter going.

My main concern in doing this is the mandarin and lawnmower having something to eat, so heres what I'm thinking:

I have a 29g that I was thinking about setting up as a seahorse tank one day. I thinkI'll go ahead and pullsome live rock, sand and critters form my main and get it going but let it stay fallow for 6 weeks. I'll also load it with some cheto and feed DT's to it to get the pod population growing and I don't even mind if I get a slight GHA breakout.

Then once this tank is set up I'll start the fallow process on my 280. The 29 will only be for the mandarin and lawnmower, but I'll need to treat them for Ich first. So here is my main question. How long does a fish have to be in hypo to kill Ich? I'll chance these two fish for a few days not having food to eat in the 100g hypo q tank and then move them to the 29 to get fat and happy. Will this be enough? or, should I treat them with something in the 100, or posibly dip them.

Looking for feedback, thanks
 
Unfortunately, it takes six weeks of hypo to be sure ich is gone. You might consider the three day transfer method as it only takes 18 days to complete. The downside is that it takes two tanks that you can break down and clean every 3 days.
 
that's too bad - I was hoping the 6 weeks was for the tank and the kill ich cycle on the fish could be cut shorter. I was thinking the hypo it self may kill what ich is on the fish in a few days if not sooner and the 6 weeks was to let the ich in the tank just die off naturally by not providing a host
 
More or less.. the hypo immediately kills any free swimming ich, or those that haven't dug under the skin of the fish yet. But it doesn't kill any cysts that might have came in with the water. Those have to hatch and be killed by the hypo as well, and can take as long as 30 days. Also, any ich that have dug under the skin have to develop and emerge to be killed. Hence the six weeks.
 
I had a lawn mower blenny also when I started the hypo process. I was looking to downsize my fish load anyway so I returned him to the shop I bought him at (never saw any ich on him). If you could get him out of the tank I think you could leave the mandarin in there for the whole time. If that doesn't work, though, you would have to start all over again. Just a thought.

Kay
 
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