Setting up new 100g tank - Need opinions on sumps, skimmers, lights

[Jacob]

[Although I have been maintaining a FOWLR for over 3 years now I still feel very in experienced and ignorant. Especially after joining the club. I had never heard of the concept of a sump until stumbling across Marc's site a couple of months ago. My current tank is a 50g that was given to me without prior research or education. I have been stumbling along and my fish seemed to survive fine however the popular and coveted coraline is less present, almost none existent, now than 3 years ago. I think that may have something to do with the lighting. I just replaced my 3-year-old Coralife bulbs with the same T-5's that Marc put on his 55g. I didn't know that bulbs lost their usefulness. I figured they were still good until they burned out. Now I seem to have some new red coraline have just 3-4 weeks with the new bulbs.

So here is where you come in. I just picked up a 100g (60W x 18D x 20H) from elinder on Saturday. There is about 2 inches of sand that he says has been in there for a few months and about 60-80 pounds of Holey rock that is bare. I would say it is not live at all yet, maybe some bacteria. He had a yellow tang and a 4-stripe damsel in it. About 60-70% of the water was transported over as well. I have it set up about 90-95% filled with 2 powerheads and a canister filter running in it. I plan to add some flakes, or a piece of deli shrimp, to see if I get an ammonia spike and cycle the tank if necessary.

A few questions I need help with please. I plan to run FOWLR, inverts, mushrooms, and one tiny frag I got from last months auction. I do not plan to get into a full-blown reef tank right away but who knows what will happen after a few more weeks or months in this awesome club. So here are the questions:

What is Holey rock? Will it support the appropriate bacteria, and microfuana/flora populations that are needed? I know I need to add more LR but should I replace the Holey rock or just add to it?

Keeping in mind that the tank is not drilled, how important is a sump in FOWLR? Will a few powerheads, skimmer, and a canister filter be acceptable to the guru SW hobbyist? If a sump is recommend, what volume should it be?

In the reading I have done in the forum I know MH is better then VHO, PC, and T5. But is it necessary for FOWLR? Whatever lights are recommended, also recommend how many of each bulb I should have.

As far as skimming is concerned, I have read on other threads that the Remora is the crowd favorite, so which model would be needed for 100g? What websites sell Remoras at a good price?

Thanks in advance for helping wanna be set up his tank properly. ::

P.S. I would attach a photo but I am having computer troubles and it won't recognize my camera anymore.]

 

[mwolek]

[Grats on the new tank.

Good plan.

Holey rock is I belive a limestone rock, it is white, and has large holes in it. It is suitable for bacteria but not the best. Its not as porus as live rock and will likley never do denitrification. Many people use this as base rock.

A sump is ideal because it helps you keep a steady water level in the display tank, and will surface skim the top of the water, which is where most nutrients build up (white haze/skin I have plenty if you want a pic lol). It also gives a place to put a skimmer, heater, and create good water flow in the tank when used with a good pump and return system without power heads (or as many) in the tank. As for size, the biggest one you can fit in under the stand (and likley through the doors of it).
Cannister filters do more harm then good if neglected. Needs to be changed monthly at the bare minimum. Biweekly is better.
A skimmer is a must to almost anyone.
If you do not want a sump, a hang on skimmer like a Remora Pro with filter box, and a closed loop like Marcs with a big pump may be sufficient.
I'd really recommend the sump though!

I'm not sure what frag you got at the auction so I cant comment there. The other corals you mentioned do not require bright light. How tall is the tank? If you keep them near the top you may get away with 2 NO flourescents.
Actinic bulbs are not required, the corals could really care less IMO. Find a color and bulb combo you like the look of. Brighter light will bring out fish color more though, I have seen MH over fish only tanks and it looks very nice.

The EV series is very good if you have a sump. The Remora Pro is a great skimmer if you need to HOT (hang on tank). The Urchin is an insump model of the Remora, another great skimmer. I'd get an EV-120 or a large Remora.
As for price, they will all be about the same. AquaC only has 1 US distributor and they are sold with MSRP's unlike most equipment.

Hope that helps some I'm sure others will have things to add or disagree with ]

 

[Jacob]

[Thanks a bunch Mark. I appreciate your help.

What does the term "base rock" mean? I have seen that in my reading the last couple of days. How does it differ from other rock? What is it purpose? It is necessary? etc.]

 

[Maldivan]

[Hi Jacob,
Welcome to the 100 gal club! And congrats on your new tank!Limestone is calcium based rock and Mark is 100% correct - Its NOT porous on the inside therefore it will never be able to act as any type of biological filter. However , it does have advantages as base rock ( Rock that you put under your show rock ) and it also helps maintain higher PH. I have about 50-75 lbs of it in my 100 and it grows corraline algae quicker than any other rocks Ive had in there.A good porous rock thats very cheap is Lace rock, its volcanic rock that is mega porous and will be an excellent bio-filter.I have heard that It may leech minerals into the water but several experts on RC say that it doesnt...go figure a difference of opinion in this hobby! If you want some excellent rock Brad Ward is selling some base rock, it looks like old Fiji to me. If you do go for a sump the larger the better.I have a 29 gal sump under my 100 and I should have listened to a few others on this forum and went larger ( well longer really ).I found a 52 gal rubbermaid tub at walmart for $13 that would be PERFECT for a sump. I believe Amanda has one as her QT .I also have the AquaC remora Pro in my sump as a Protein Skimmer and its just da stuff! Ive never had anything but AquaC's so I cant comment on any other brand. Im still a noobie to this hobby but if you need any help feel free to ask - you live close enough !

Andy]

 

[mwolek]

[It will over time act as a biological filter for nitrification, bacteria will colonize on the surface of the rock and in the holes, its not 100% useless just not as good as live rock or other dead kinds

The big disadvantage to it imo is its so white and will show algae quick and easy.

IMO if you can afford it, use 100% quality live rock. Others use egg crate and pvc frames with rock zip tied to them. Others use base rock of varios types. I am using old dead sun bleeched live rock as base rock in my new tank.]

 

[Jacob]

[Andy, $13 is certainly a great price for a sump. How would I partition it into seperate areas for the skimmer, return, refugium, etc as I have seen that sumps are all about?

Mark, the tank is 20" high. I don't think I would skimp on NO bulbs. If I don't go MH I would use T5 unless someone tells me otherwise. If Holey rock is white I am not sure if the rock I have is Holey rock. That is simply what the previous owner billed it as. It is more of a yellow beige to even brown on some rocks.]

 

[larrycivic]

[i started out with a 100 gallon tank. my 1st filtration was 2 remora hang on skimmers. they worked fine for my reef tank, but i am also in the process of making a fish only tank. so i needed to get a new filtration, so i got a refug. i am going to throw the 2 skimmers on the Fish only tank.

IMO if you have a skimmer that is big enough for your tank, with some live rock you will have a good bare bones tank.

as far as lights for a fish only tank, you do not need that much light, because you are not trying to grow coraline, or any hard core corals. i have t5's on my tank and they work good enough to grow alot of different corals, i have a problem with enough lights for my anemone.

but bare bones skimmer, lights, powerheads, SW, and LR. this is just my two cents.


good luck]

 

[Maldivan]

[The Holey rock that is bleached is white. The variety that most of us get is the beige type. It covers quickly with corraline and looks like my carribean withen a few moths.The 52 gal tub has slots in it where one could place acrylic partitions and Seal them in.It looks very tempting for me to rip out my 29 gal and put the 52 gal rubbermaid in.The only thing is its 16" wide and even though it will fit in my stand It wouldnt leave me much room on the sides. Id go a minimum of a 29 gal for a sump , and preferably a 55 gal.Even though its 55 gal youll probably only run it 1/2 full or a tad more. The length is the important thing as you can add baffles , fuge, and skimmer sections at will and youll have plenty of room to move things where you want them.Plus you could have a fairly large return pump and you will have a lot of room for the flow to slow down before it gets to the return area.LOL 30" just doesnt seem to be enough for me.I wish i had gone w/a 55 gal but at the time I was skimping for $$ in every way I could.]

 

[melev]

[If you use Rubbermaid tubes, be sure to buy one that does NOT have four feet in the base. That is going to be the pressure point and the sump will likely split at one of those four feet. Better to get a reasonably smooth flat-bottomed container.

To make separate compartments, buy smaller containers and have the water go from the smallest to the larger container. It can be a medium container with the skimmer where the water pours in, and overflows into the next size unit where you grow some macros in a refugium-like zone. That overflows (or drill holes in the side so that the algae can't wash over the wall) into the largest container where your return pump is located to send water back up to the tank.

A few T5s over your tank will be just fine. They are supposed to last 15 months before needing to be replaced. I still have one 48" actinic T5 available if you wanted it. I'm not using them now that I"ve upgraded.]

 

[Maldivan]

[heres a pic of my Ghetto 29 gal sump.Its total cost including 1/4" Acrylite and a tube of ge silicone II sealant was $58.Dont trash my sealant job!! The water enters a 5x7 Bubble trap the goes into the skimmer section, then over-under-over baffles to the fuge - then into the return area. Ive been experimenting with baffles in the return area and filter floss to remove the blowing sand from the new tank syndrome.Ive started removing filter floss daily now and hopefully I wont have any in a few days.ope this gives you some ideas. Also I just looked at that rubbermaid 52 gal tub and it does have the 4 feet so I guess thats a no-go!]

 

[Jacob]

@Marc wrote:

[Marc, the tank is 60" but I guess a 48" actinic would be ok. How much do you want for the 48" actinic T5?

I am actually picking up 2 250W MH bulbs and balasts from aarone today. I like the idea of the ripple effect that I have read about and want to make sure there is plenty of light for my BTA and future softies like GSP, etc, as well as being able to have great coraline growth. With those two MH bulbs and 2 T5 actinics, will that give my tank enough light, or should I also have a daylight T5 or 2?

Marc, I don't have the exact dimensions from under my base with me at work now, but roughly what would the cost on materials run to build a sump like your model G with the appropriate volume? The tank is 60x18x20 so under the base I guess would be about 56x15x30. I can get exact dimensions later. I am just trying to weight the costs. I like the idea of rubbermaids as far as cost is concerned but I think I would rather have the transparency of acrylic so I could see better what is happening inside the refugium, etc.]

 

[Jacob]

[Any thoughts on running 2 tanks off of 1 sump?

I am thinking about puting my 100g and 50g side by side and running them off the same sump. The 50g sits about 12" lower than the 100g because the base of the 50g is about 12" shorter. So I though I could have the return flow from the sump pump into the 100g and have an overflow transfer into the 50g and then have an overflow drain down to the sump. That way I only have 1 sump to setup and maintain and also by combining the volumes of the 2 tanks and the sump I should be able to have more stable parameters.

Comments, thoughts, concerns?]

 

[kwl1763]

[That would work. It would function as one 150G tank with a divider in the middle.

With a sump you also have more water. This would be the cheapest solution since you could get one skimmer, one set of heaters, etc.but you need to make sure they are big enough for your ~200G of water. Sorry if this is obvious just don't want you to miss anything.

I like the idea of running things seperate in case I get issues in one I can have another to experiement with but it is more work and more costly!

Besides running together would still allow you to do some cool stuff like make the 50G a reef with only a couple fish and the 100G a FOWLR. That way you could keep some non reef safe fish if you wanted. Lots of possibilities!

This is actually giving me some cool ideas whenIeventually design a fish wall for my next house. 3 cascaded tanks would be awesome!]

 

[melev]

[I only have one T5, but you can buy another one at PetOrama. You'll want two actinic T5s to supplement your 250w MHs. They do sell a 59" T5, so you could use one long one (new) and the one I have (2 months old).

Combining to two tanks on one sump is quite doable. However, the sump has to be able to hold the extra volume of water that drains from the surface area of TWO tanks when the pump is off. So you'll have to do some math.

A sheet of 5 x 8 Acrylite FF will probably run you about $120, and that will let you build the Model G yourself. That might include the cost of the glue and applicator bottle, maybe not. Those run about $10.

If you have an issue in one tank, it will be duplicated in the second one with them tied together. FYI.]

 

[Jacob]

[Due to the difference in the tank heights, having the tanks side by side with an overflow between the two is not going to work. I also didn't like the idea of having to cut holes in the side of the canopies for the overflow.

I still want to go with the single sump idea for both tanks though, however I will have overflows from each tank go directly to the sump.

Question, for the return from the sump, would I be ok to use one pump and split the return line to go to both tanks or should I run two pumps from the return section of the sump to each respective tank? I could put a valve on both sides of the return if using one pump to control flow to each tank.]

 

[melev]

[You can run one pump to both tanks. Make sure that the drain of each tank can keep up.]

 

[Jacob]

[Update:

Well, here it is. Finally done with the major setting up. Still fine tuning to do but mostly done if one can ever be done.

Here is what I started with. My 4 year old FOWLR with HOB skimmer, canister filter, and 60 watts of NO lights (one actinic and one daylight). The net is covering my tan BTA to keep the tomato clown and cleaner shrimp away as I had just fed it.

alt="">


Then I found DFWMAS and started to get schooled. Found a non-RR 100g for a great price. (This was before I learned that I would have rather had RR. I guess I will save that for my next upgrade. Can any one say in-wall!! Need a new house first).

Anyhow, this is what the 100g looked like when I got it. A bunch of holey rock, some sand, 40W NO lighting, no canopy, and a unfinished base.

alt="">]



Edited By Jdaddy3boys on 1101419926

 

[Jacob]

[I finished the base by sanding it down and stained it with 3 coats of ebony stain followed by 3 coats of spare urethane. Then, wanting a sump, but not knowing how to work with acrylic, I went with plywood. Great idea for large tanks, but I don't recommend it for a smaller application. Not cost effective when the paint is $80 per gallon shipped. I should have just practiced a bit with acrylic and then did that. Oh well. Their is always next time. Here is the sump under construction.

alt="">

alt="">

alt="">

Approximately 150 lbs of half dead live rock from another members tank as been added to the existing live rock.

alt="">]



Edited By Jdaddy3boys on 1101420137

 

[Jacob]

[Here is a shot of the end product of the sump. It is painted with 3 coats of epoxy paint, aquaculture grade. This is from the left hand pair of doors in the base. You can mostly see the refugium in the center with cheato and mangroves. A 10 inch box fan is suspended above it blowing on to the water. To the left of the fuge is the return. You can see the return lines from the mag 9.5 to the 50g and the mag 24 to the 100g. Not seen is the skimmer area to the right of the fuge with an ASM G4 skimmer rated for 350g.

alt="">
Next came the canopy. Simple box construction with 3/4" hardwood plywood stained the same as the base. I plan to spice it up some time in the future with some trim or crown molding, etc. Lighting is two 250w MH, 10000k I think, 2 54w T5 actinic, and 2 3-led moonlights powered at 3.7V. I am about to ad dual 36 watt PC in between to MH to help brighten the center dimmed by the center brace. 2 110v fans are sitting on the center brace and my some day get mounted in the canopy. The canopy is painted with 2 coats of the same epoxy paint as the sump since I had plenty. I was planing on painting the inside white anyhow.

alt="">

And here it is, loaded with my first frags ever, all from the prop workshop and the frag swap. I have 4 mj1200 on a chauvet wavemaker.

alt="">
Here is a shot of both the 100g and the 50g. As you can see, I am getting ready to do my bi-weekly water change.

alt="">
And the 50g FOWLR by itself. 2 mj1200 and 2 mj900 also on wavemaker. Right now it has only 36w HO T5 daylight, 30w NO daylight and 30w NO actinic. Now that I have a RBTA in there, this weekend it will be receiving 384w PC. I guess it isn't really a FOWLR since I have some shrooms in there but for now, that is all I plan to make it. All corals will me in the 100g with the MH.

alt="">]



Edited By Jdaddy3boys on 1101420505

 

[Jacob]

[And while I am at it. Here is a shot of my FW turtle tank.

alt="">
It is a red-eared slider. I would love to have salt water turtle but have yet to run across them for the hobbiest. They must be way too big.

alt="">]



Edited By Jdaddy3boys on 1101420267