Return pump size

[Marine Matt]

Gentlemen,

Need some refresher training once more...

I recently purchased this 20 gal sump/refugium (I will clean it thoroughly...) and a CPR CSS90 overflow for my 30 cube, but now I need to A) buy a suitable submersible return pump, and B) plumb it into my existing (and currently cycling) tank. Can y'all please help me figure out the right size pump and suggest some good options? I also just plain forget the best way to plumb a sump setup. I know it's pretty straightforward but I really don't want a flooded apt. I know I'll need a check valve. Also, I would assume I need a ball valve somewhere along the plumbing to control return flow? It's a 30 cube and I just bought a Tunze 6015...but that doesn't mean I want to have a hurricane strength flow in there at all times... [smilie=shake.gif]

Other questions;

What should I put in the sump? Some Chaeto? Some livesand and rocks for the critters for sure. A light to grow the chaeto for sure...what's the best spectrum for that? Do you foresee me being able to continue using my CPR BakPak2 skimmer in the sump? I'd really like it not in my display any more.

Alright fellas, thanks in advance!

-Matt

 

[Mike M]

I've read 3-5x tank volume turnover is what you want and I'm going with 5x turnover on my new build. Don't forget that whenever you calculate this out, you have to take into account head loss. Here's a good calculator you can use: http://www.reefcentral.com/calc/hlc2.php/

I use a ball valve on my return pumps to restrict flow if needed but haven't had to do so. If you want to run a chiller in-line, that will also affect your head loss so you may want to slightly oversize your pump to get your desired flow rate. Don't forget to drill an anti-siphon hole or two in your return to the tank.

I'm learning the plumbing options myself so I can't really help out there although I am leaning toward using PVC to keep things orderly combined with some tubing or Flex PVC at the ends to reduce pump vibration. On smaller setups, I've just used really heavy tubing.

I put extra live rock in my sump and will have a refugium section build in to the new one that will have macro, livesand, and liverock. Regular daylight bulbs work great for growing macro. If your skimmer is HOB, you can probably adapt it to your sump. That's what I did with mine and I dropped my Remora Pro into the sump.

 

[mmiller40]

I don't like the anti siphon holes. You can hear the water trickle. Plus I had them get clogged and fail. It's better to have a sump that can handle the water from the back flow. That one less chance for a flood.

 

[Tj51]

@Marine Matt wrote:

I agree about the anti-siphon hoses. I've put a hole in the underside of my returns (but need to on my new system) so the air from the hole will break the siphon. As far as macro algae, they are all good, chaeto, calurpia (sp), doesn't matter just make you have enough (but not to much as it will be buried with no light and die causing more nitrates) as far as lights, heck I have a 100 watt light I bought from the racks of Wal-mart and my macro algae grows like crazy. They sell shop lights with clips at a hardware (like with an 8" circular collar) and "try" for 6500 color or close but you don't need a special bulb. As far as live sand, I don't care for it. It gets everywhere traps lots of waste and is hard to clean; same with miracle mud. If you have extra live rock you can put it in there, it will help with pods, etc.

I'd make things simple. Your water drains into a sump, goes through your macro algae, then your skimmer and then back. You will need your heaters in the sump, and maybe a phosban reactor for carbon or a phosphate/nitrate sponge. Then pump it back. Not to fast, as stated 3 - 5 times your tank volume per hour, you can get your flow if needed from koralias or other pumps. Simple can be best, especially at first

 

[coralreefer]

I have referenced Marc's site several times- you should spend some time reading through his trials and tribulations.

Try this link for an explanation on using a too powerful return pump and diverting excess flow back into sump. Simple and effective. It's posted under the Feb 15, 2003.

http://www.melevsreef.com/55g/55sump.html

He has other pages that go over hang on backs and stuff.

There is also a calculator on reefcentral main page where you can enter height, number of elbows, 45s, etx and it will estimate flow. Like tj51 said- you need 3-5x total tank volume. Play with the calculator until you find a common pump, like a mag-x, that will work.

 

[Marine Matt]

Hey guys,

Thanks for all the assistance. I just got the sump cleaned out and I think I'll be going with chaeto and some additional live rock in the sump. This will be a busy week, but I think I've got some good plans kicking around in my head for this. Also, I don't know if anyone has seen the CPR CSS90 overflow, but it is a very nicely built item!

Best,

-Matt

 

[Marine Matt]

Actually guys...I am in need of a little bit of assistance with the pump selection. Looking for a submersible pump that is 5x the volume of my tank; 30 gals x 5 = 150 gallons per hour. I found an Eheim 1048 (I *think* I remember them being pretty good pumps) that flows 158gph. Stats below:

Model # Pump Output Delivery Head Power Consumption Hose Connection (Suction Side) Hose Connection (Pressure Side) Dimensions (LxWxH)
1048 158 gph 4'11" 10W 1/2" 1/2" 5.8"x3.0"x4.7"
1250 317 gph 6'7" 28W 3/4" 1/2" 7.1"x3.8"x4.7"

Only thing I'm unsure of is the head delivery looks to be just past the max for the 1048...anyone else have some other pump options?

Thanks again fellas,

-Matt

 

[DaveG99]

Im using a 700gph overflow from Glass-holes.com and I am using a quiet one 1200 on my 45 gallon shallow tank. I prefer a very slow flow and its giving me a little bit under 200gph which is plenty IMO. I dont use any special hoses or anything. Just PVC lines and soft hose immediately leaving the pump. If my pump shuts off the 20 gallon high sump has plenty of room to hold the water that comes back down. I think most people use way to much flow for their returns. I also just have cheato and a skimmer in my sump/fuge. I like to keep a power head in my sump making sure the water there gets moved around well and detritus doesn't accumulate. I use a clip on light from home depot with a yellowish florescent curly Q style bulb and it seems to grow the cheato well.

You can click on the link in my signature for pictures of my set up if you want to see what Im talking about.

 

[Mike M]

@Marine Matt wrote:

Did you try plugging in your numbers into the calculator I linked? It has the Eheim models you've listed on there.

 

[Marine Matt]

I did, though I feel like I might be getting an answer too easily thus would like confirmation. Here's the pump I think I may need:

Vertical length in feet 5
Horizontal length in feet 0
Pipe diameter in inches .75
Choose your pump: Eheim 1060
Number of 90 degree elbows 0
Number of 45 degree elbows 0
Number of gate valves 0
Number of ball valves 0
Number of union couplings 0
Number of swing check valves 1
Number of pipe exits 1
Number of pipe entrances 1

Total losses are 5.67 feet of head pressure, or 2.45 PSI. with a flow rate of 306 GPH. Process took 108 iterations.

 

[Mike M]

Personally, I'd pick the pump that gives you some leeway that you can throttle down or split off to feed reactors, a chiller, etc. so it sounds like the 1250 might be the way to go. If you change your plumbing to where you have more bends, restrictions, etc. it would also cut down on the effective turn over rate. If you start with a pump that just meets your needs, you won't really have the option of going for more flow if you need it without replacing the pump anyways.

 

[Marine Matt]

@MBSL55 wrote:

So the 1250 is rated at 317 gph, but with ~5ft of head pressure I'll only get 139 gph aquarium turnover, but as you suggest, I'd like to leave some room for additional growth if need be - you believe that'll give me enough flexibility? The next step up is the 1260 and it's something like 635 gph which is likely to be big time overkill for my little 30.

 

[Mike M]

I guess there's nothing in between for the ranges you're looking at. Any plans to run chillers or reactors with this setup? You could always just add dedicated pumps for those later like a small maxijet for a reactor or a separate chiller pump if you end up adding a chiller. I run mag drives but a lot of people don't like them due to heat and power consumption but a Mag 5 would give you about 224 gph based on that calculator. Mag 3 would be 200 gph. You can typically find either of those pumps used for pretty cheap. The Mag 3 and Mag 5 share the same motor block and impeller from what I've read. The only difference is the outlet hole size on the Mag 5 is larger so you can actually take a Mag 3, ream out the output hole, and you then have a Mag 5.