pvc framework for live rock

C

Carabelli

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as i am planning my aquascaping on the 105 gallon, 48x18x28, i am curious if using a pvc framework would be a good option - it is so hard to place the rocks in a stable and attractive arrangement that tall, so, i was thinking i could take 1/2 or 3/4" pvc and make a framerwork of shelves essentially to stack the rocks on - thus, accomplishing the following ...

1. saves on the amount of rock i would need
2. creates a stable and solid foundation for the rocks to sit on
3. allows me to create several caves and nooks for the fish to swim through and hide in
4. cuts down on the number of dead areas within the rock

any thoughts??
 
I was thinking about doing a 3 foot PVC arch in my new setup. The acrh would join two mounds on each side of the tank. I'm not quite sure if I'm going with that idea yet.

All your points are very valid.

If I was to do it, I would make sure to make the structure sturdy. Also, I was planning on drilling the rocks and using clear zip ties to make sure all the rock is secure. The last thing you want in a live rock avalanche.

The last thing is that you need to make sure all the PVC is covered and not visible. I think that looks kind of tacky and unnatural.

Let us know what you decide to do.
 
also, some additional thoughts ...

i have bought several tubes of aquastik epoxy to attach the live rock with, and i think i will try to secure the rock in place with fishing line - i have also thought about painting the pvc framework with some gray spray paint, or just letting the corallin cover it with time??
 
I thought about doing something similar, but the problem is if the pvc is visible, but still under (and shaded by) the rockwork, it will not get any light and therefore no corallin growth.......in the end the pvc will always be visible.... :roll:
 
It can work great and a great number of people with big tanks have done it and I'll be doing it on my 450. A couple things.

1) Use at least 3/4" PVC. The stuff needs to be sturdy!

2) Use heavy duty zip ties if you use them. You can hardly see black or clear ones. I fear fishing line will get cut due to the abrasive surface but with the epoxy you are probably OK.

3) Make sure you have plenty of small rocks. You can 100% hide your PVC but you will need lots of small stuff to put in nooks and crannies where you can see PVC

4) You could paint/magic marker the PVC but the better option is just to make cover it with rock so it's not visable. Coralline will grow in almost total darkness so even the shady areas will blend quickly.
 
I used acrylic to make an arch when I first got my tank. Used two straight pieces, cut a hole in them, and inserted a tube through the holes for the top of the arch.

*My* problem was, I have an engineer goby, and he dug the sand, so my arch was always falling over.

The other problem, that anyone who uses a tube or long piece of pvc is going to have, is that there are "dead spots" inside the tube. No flow, so you get an algae problem. If the tube is too long, even algae eaters cannot get in, because there is no air.
So, if you are going to use a tube, pvc, whatever - make sure there are periodic holes cut in, so flow can go through.

To hold up my rocks, and make sure "Stupid" can't knock them over by digging, I have large diameter pvc about 2" tall in the sand, with sand in them, to hold up the rocks. I also have flexible tubing for "Stupid" to swim through (like a hamster!) and pieces that hold up the rock. This has worked fairly well for a couple of years now - the rocks have only fallen twice, due to so much sand sifting.

As for painting the pvc - I wouldn't bother. If it really shows, put putty over it, and the coralline will grow faster on that, and it can look more like a rock in the meantime.
 
It's a great point Cathy makes. Don't close it up either as gases can permeate throughthe PVC. I know one guy who glued it tight shut but when he eventually took it out and opened it up the smell of hydrogen sulfide was crazy nasty!
 
well, that is all excellent info - couple of questions ....

i will use the 3/4" pvc for the extra strength - i had thought that is would just close it all in to prevent water from getting in there, but, i guess that is out - my next concern would be should i just cut hole throughout it but still seal the ends so no livestock can get in there - i.e. snails, wrasses ect??

also, i choose to paint it, can i just use a regular old spray paint like you get at home depot - my first thought is that i could spray a nice purple/gray color on it and help hide it, and then, the areas that show, place epoxy and rubble to break up the lines -

thanks.
 
I would say leave the ends open - most things that could get in could easliy get out, as long as nothing falls in after them.

NO! Spray paint has chemicals in it that could kill your livestock, even if dry. (And it flakes in saltwater, anyway!) There's a marine paint that is better, I'm sure someone here knows the brand name.
 
whoa, that was close!! thanks for that info!!

on a side note, keith, you might want to take note of that point, if you are planning on putting that beautiful skimmer of yours in the sump submerged, you might want to watch the paint on the fittings, somebody (hmm, possibly me) just used plain spray paint to paint them since i was planning on it being external - sorry... didn't know at the time

as for the open ends, i would be concerned about something crawling in one end and getting lost in the maze of pipes as i plan on doing several pieces in a scaffold setup - perhaps i could use a cap with several holes drilled???
 
A cap with several holes drilled - hmm. You would have not much flow, and not much light. Only where the other holes were...maybe if you had lots of holes, close together? But that would weaken the pipe.

"Something crawling in and getting lost" - not likely, because if the critters in your tank are anything like the critters in mine, they wouldn't go any farther than an inch or two into the tube. Crabs could crawl in, and snails went, too - but after a certain distance, they would crawl right back out. And once the food source that they were after ran out, they would go in search of a better place.

It's something to think about, and I'm hoping some others will chime in, because I got rid of my setup, since it fell over so much. I remember how hard it was to clean, and all the junk that grew in it. I was going after the arched look that Dallas World Aquarium has in one of the tanks, achieved it, but what a hassle!
 
well, i really don't plan on doing many arches or such, my thinking is that i could take the 3/4" pipe and create a scaffolding of pipes to replace the normal base rock i would have to use to stack on top off - so, i really did not anticipate any additonal maintenance with it, in fact, i thought it would make life easier as i would not have to worry about rock collapsing on me -- am i wrong??

thanks.
 
I do not know if it has ever been done, but why not try and create a spray bar out of the PVC rock stand? This would help with the dead spots under the rock and would eliminate the problem with dead areas within the PVC. The problems that I see with this idea is that you would need to put caps on the end that would be under your sand (if you have any). But that should not be a problem. Just drill the holes for the spray bar facing the undersides of the rocks. You could power the spray bar with something as small as a maxi jet as I wouldnt think you need very much water flow going through it.

Just an idea,

Keith
 
I was also gonna suggest making a spray bar out of the pvc rack. It would keep detritus from collecting in the rock. It wouldn't have to be a lot of flow just enough to blow the rock somewhat clean. You could also before drilling the holes glue some small crushed coral on the pvc to hide it. Then drill after that so nothing is blocky the holes for the spray bar. Then attach your rock with zip ties. I have often thought about doing this but what a pain. It would much better to do with new rock that isn't cycled yet so that you can have it out of water for a while without killing already killing the cycled rock. Building it out of the tank would be the best I think. There was a tank on RC I saw I think in the big tank forum that was like maybe 500 gallons or more but he had an awesome rock sculpture made from a pvc rack. Kwl1763 do you remember seeing it since I am sure with your new tank you have been researching everything in that forum.
 
It would work fine and indeed all you need is like a maxijet. I remember seeing that but it was long ago. I keep my eyes open for it over the next little while.

Here's the theory!

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=496081&highlight=PVC+and+rack+and+spraybar
 
well, i could certainly hook up one of the maxijets i have laying around and keep the water moving somewhat - that would be easy - i think i will assemble the framework out of the tank and then move it in two pieces, the majority of my rock will be base rock, as this is much $$ friendly
 
oregonreef.com The guy made spray bars out of his PVC racks.

Another option to make the PVC look better if exposed is to apply lots of PVC primer, the purple stuff, and turn the PVC purple. It will look like somewhat like coralline and will make the PVC not stand out. It will probably still be noticeable, but you will have to look for it.
 
Made mine out of 1/2" pvc. Supporting about 300lbs of LR. Drilled hole in the corner stems pointing up, along the long vertical pipe at the back/middle and along the back rack bar. Attached a MAG7 pump on top of the vertical pipe to push water thru the drilled holes.

Rack was about 3.5" high, just enough to be covered by the southdown sand.
 
wow, that is a lot of pipe howard!!! i think i would like to go more vertical with mine, but, was your plan to keep the dsb fresh?? thanks.
 
Oh, my goodness! Howard, did you have to build that IN the tank, or put it in in pieces? (How did you get around the center brace?)

I like the spray bar idea....just wondering if you have an arch-style, where does the pump go, and how do you get it there? Most pumps are meant to go on the side of the tank, so you would have to have pvc leading to the arch, or the pump ON the arch....maybe I'm simply picturing the arch itself wrong.
 
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