Positioning of halides - Which way is correct

[I keep getting people asking me about the whys of the positioning of Halide Bulbs So I wanted to start this thread..

I want to make light of this light question I will try to explain it the best I know how. We did relivant testing of the positioning of MH bulbs over several tanks. Same wattage and same kelvin. When the bulbs were placed parallel with the length of the tank you got a good even spread of light per 2 foot section. This has been the normal fashion for so long and still in the way that Hoods/Canopies are manufactured.

When the bulbs were placed in the perpendicular arrangement you got different results and higher values of PAR. Also you achieve less shading on the sides of corals that after they grow to certain heights start to die off some in the lower portions because of no photosynthesis in these areas. Hence the direction or placement made a difference. Also with this configuration you could create what we called "Hot Spots" for that handful of corals that love to be blasted more that other corals. In a Single bulb configuration we found that in like a 3 foot tank we had less shading on the sides of the tank as well.

One of the other things that I noticed which seems to be obvious is the light that comes out the front glass and out the back glass it less. More light was staying inside the tank with the perpendicular arrangement.

Another thing that has really turned into the hot topic on Halides is how long should I run my bulbs......The peak PAR that corals receive is only about 4 hours but the corals still receive light for an additional 4-5 hours on each side of the peak depending on the solstice..But im not saying to shorten your photoperiod..... But maybe cut back on the length of which you burn your halides if you are using a combination settup with lighting. Such as MH/VHO or MH/Power compacts.
I personally have rolled my halides back an hour two weeks ago and another hour the week after. and plan to go back one more hour next week. What I have noticed so far is that diring the day I am getting better polyp extention on my stoney corals. No Rick I still dont have Bugs >:) *Snicker*

I have also noticed that the coloration in my corals is looking a little deeper and richer..And im still doing my normal feeding of cyclopeeze for them at about and hour when the lights are off.This seems to be the best time to feed these kinds of corals because their feeder polyps are out. These are different from the ones that are visible during the daytime..


To each his own on this and Im not saying one works better than the other. But in my opinion the light is alot better utilized like this and gives you better coverage.. This diagram is kinda crappy ,, but you will understand what I am refering to by the Hot spots and spreading of the light.... Just think if the bulbs were parallel with the tank, The values of each would not be crossing the bulbs next to them as much.

hotspot.jpg
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Nathan]
 
[So how many hours are you running your MH now? And how long are your VHO on? And how long were these running before?]
 
[My Halide is down to 5 hours,, and VHO's are still at 12.... so

5 hours of 250 watt Iwasaki 6500K
12 hours of 225 watt actinic VHO
12 hours of 75 watt Aqua Sun VHO.....


Nathan]
 
[I've been saying that for a long time now....bulbs should be run that way not parallel....I'd say its even more important for a DE bulb then a SE bulb.

Most tanks are only 24" front to back, with the bulb in the middle, why waste all that valuable light out the front of your tank and into the back wall?

Another HUGE thing, paint the inside of your canopy FLAT white, I see so many wood colored canopy insides.]
 
[Does it make a difference that you are running 6500k MH? Would it take the corals longer to get the light they needed with a higher k bulb.]
 
@marine-noob wrote:
[Does it make a difference that you are running 6500k MH? Would it take the corals longer to get the light they needed with a higher k bulb.] said:
[Considering the saki's are 3 times as bright I would say so.

BTW How do you cope with the yellow? I can barely stand my tank as white as it is now.]
 
@mwolek wrote:
[I'd say its even more important for a DE bulb then a SE bulb.] said:
[I am of the opinion that the market for HQI pendants is a million dollar industry. They spend a lot of time and money trying to create the "best" product. All that time and effort and not one pendant is designed to run in any other position than parallel. If they could make their products better running the bulb perpendicular then at least one company would market that product. If you have a flat reflector then maybe but with a high quality reflector the light is focused in the best way. They do make perpendicular reflectors, that are designed to function better mounted in that position.]
 
@mwolek wrote:
[I've been saying that for a long time now....bulbs should be run that way not parallel....I'd say its even more important for a DE bulb then a SE bulb. Most tanks are only 24" front to back said:
[Well,, I've been this way about halides since me and dana took a meter to a few tanks. I dont have alot of personal EXP with DE yet but im sure their going to play out the same way. I personally use KILN"s Primer inside to make that white inside canopy.This seems to give a better internal reflection.

Most of the tanks I see with halides running parallel have thius HUGE White band of light ON THE CARPET.. Do these people think they can color up carpet with halides? * Snicker *]
 
@mmiller40 wrote:
[[I]@marine-noob wrote:[/I][quote="Does it make a difference that you are running 6500k MH? Would it take the corals longer to get the light they needed with a higher k bulb. said:
Considering the saki's are 3 times as bright I would say so.

BTW How do you cope with the yellow? I can barely stand my tank as white as it is now.]"]
[I dont cope with the yellow..:) I have it flooded out with 225 watts of VHOactinic.. You dont see the yellow.. you just see the intensity.......I have one aqua sun as well and if I want to go deeper blue I just change that one out so all 4 VHO's are Actinics......

But I have the bulbs this way for growth, and I dont like the overpowering blue halides. I like just a hint of blue... and when my halide goes out,, I get plenty of it.. so I can enjoy the glowing look then....

Nathan]
 
@marine-noob wrote:
[Does it make a difference that you are running 6500k MH? Would it take the corals longer to get the light they needed with a higher k bulb.] said:
[I dont think it matters what Kelvin bulb you are using. Any mixture/Combination is going to be the same. Im not sure I understand what you are asking about the other question.
Your question was..
Would it take the corals Longer to get light they need?

I dont think it takes longer , I just know that natural sunlight is around 5400k and the higher kelvin bulbs we buy are good for simulating the color spectrum that in nature these corals see at deeper depths.All corals have a certain saturation point at which they start to utilize photosynthesis and nutrient levels.I think the biggest key is the length that the corals receive levels durring the day time. I wish I could fit more lights in my canopy to create a 3 or 4 phase light cycle durring the day ... with no more than 4 hours MAX of halides at full intensity.....You sometimes will here all the talk of the 420 nanometer spikes and the 450 nm spikes.Thats what you get from some of the higher kelvin bulbs . This is why most people with 20k bulbs get those crazy looking colors....they are simulating deep water lighting in a shallow tank. The lower kelvin bulbs are going to simulate the shallower waters with higher intensity. Thats why a 6500k bulb has 3 times the PAR as a 20K.

Make sense?

Another thing people forget about is this kelvin hopping when its time to change bulbs... Going higher K can be allright.. But going lower K will increase your PAR and burn corals if you dont phase your photoperiod back with lower cycle periods...



nathan]
 
@mwolek wrote:
[Another HUGE thing said:
[Mark,

I understand the reason to paint the inside of the canopy with white paint, I did the same thing, but why do you say to use flat paint? I used a high gloss paint being that gloss is more reflective than flat and it is easier to wipe clean.]
 
[I would not put a 6500k on a tank again, I tried that, yeah they have great par for growing corals. But the tank looked too yellow and all of the sps lost their color and turned brown. The 1000k bulbs give the overall best give and take between par level and the color, They have the par level for decent coral growth and corals ahve good color.
As far as the way bulbs, if buy pendants or make your own, you can put them anyway you want, it's your money. But most retro-fit that come with MH/vho or pc supplements already have the bulbs in a vertical position.
Most of the tanks I see with halides running parallel have thius HUGE White band of light ON THE CARPET.. Do these people think they can color up carpet with halides? * Snicker said:
Any tank you run with any amount of light that is so much lighter than the room it's in is going to throw light outside the tank onto the floor. I don't care what way you mount the bulbs, the light is going to shine out through the glass, unless I guess you don't keep the glass very clean. But like yours, it's just another OPINION.]
 
[Agree'd Rick,, everyone has an opinion on what works for them.. Lets see some pics of your tank...:) Explain your lighting setup/system

Nathan]
 
[I don't know where I stand yet on this topic. I have the bulbs running parallel with the tank right now, and because my light rack rolls from the back I can actually move the lighting across my reef - front to back.

Mitch, you mentioned that most lights are built with the bulbs running in this same layout. It could be that that is the best way to stream line the look of the pendant (Aqua Spacelight) more for aesthetics than for best lighting possible. It has to be cheaper for them to build a light housing that is more narrow vs the need for a wider one to run bulbs perpendicular.

The worst part of this discussion is that if I end up trying this out, I have to modify the heck out of my light rack and I really don't look forward to doing that. :stare:]
 
[A few things, everything I have read puts flat white at more reflective then gloss. The thing of whiping them down makes sense though.

flat white is said to be 75-80% reflective while gloss, while gloss is around 70-75%.

As far as the parralell or perpendicular mounting, I'm a firm beliver in common sense. The end of the bulbs are blocked by the socket. Light won't go through the socket, it comes out the length of the bulb.

Why don't manufacturers do this? It may be a cost thing, multi million dollar industry or not, the dollar is king. If they can save 50 cents per light by mounting them parallel instead of perpindicular, they will. I could also be totally wrong, but common sense and logic tells me otherwise.]
 
@Marc wrote:
[It could be that that is the best way to stream line the look of the pendant (Aqua Spacelight) more for aesthetics than for best lighting possible] said:
[The actual part of the reflector in my maristar is 6X6, it would take up the same space mounted in either direction. That kinda suprized my about pendents, you basically have 2 6X6 pendents/reflectors and the rest is just a flat metal connection w/ no reflective advantage (the T5'S are in a seperate compartment with their own reflectors).]
 
[well,, one of the things that I always though was kinda strange is that you see a 2 foot wide tank with a 9 inch wide light fixture. So the light is smaller and more compact. Hence shipping size is smaller and yadda yadda,,,But like I said before,,, this is all relevant if you make it and understand what I am trying to communicate . You can either agree or disagree. I will respect either opinion.. but like is being stated,,, common sense.. the bulbs will be more functional and practical with more useable surface area when the path of light from each fixture crosses the one next to it.. Not pointing into the back of the one behind its mogul socket......


Marc,, Like you said when i came to see you ,, If we had talked about this before you had made your light frame you would have had an optional view on this.. But I promise you ,, set up two tanks side by side on a closed system with the same sump/same wattage bulbs. The tank with the halides set perpendicular will show better growth and coloration.

I'd Bet my Efflo and all three of my Torts on this because I allready know the answer...:)

Nathan]
 
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