PM Ca reactor w/ ARM. Alk is 16 dKH. What to do???

M

mo

Installed a PM CA reactor with effluent chamber last Friday ( 7/14/06 ) and set the water at almost a drip. The CO² was at 1 bubble per second.
On Saturday night the ALK was at 19.8 dKH from 14.7 the day before and the ph was falling from 8.17 ( steady before the reactor install ) down to 8.07. Calcium also fell from 400 to 370 mg/L.
On Monday I called PM and the lady just blew me off and said, read the instructions and the Alk will equal out in a few days.... Really??? Well, made 10 gallons of water up on Monday night just in case......
Tonight, tested again... Before a 10 gallon water change on my 55 gallon tank, Alk 18.0 dKH, ph 7.99 and Calcium 330 mg/L.
2 hours after water change, Alk 16 dHK, ph 8.02 and Calcium 360.

I have left the water running through the reactor but shut-off the CO² flow all together.


What do I do now? Anyone have this problem and what should I do to fix it....?


Thanks a ton,
MO
 
Hi Mo,
You may want to add more information to the post as far as your full equipment list, all parameters, lighting schedule etc., as well as how long your tank has been setup. Put everybody right in front of your tank so to speak so that everbody's working with all the pieces to the puzzle instead of a few select pieces. Include your levels before the install including your magnesium levels before. I'm sure all your levels were balanced out where you wanted them before the install... right, I assume you are now trying to maintain them at xxx level.

Cheers,
 
You might want to check your magnesium levels too. If it is out of whack then it makes it harder to keep alk/ca in line. If the Mg is good, then you should just dose kalk to get the Calcium up. Once your levels are balanced then go back to using the Calcium reactor.
 
I wouldn't totally turn off CO2 cause if might allow saltwater to get to your solenoid on regulator. You don't want saltwater to get to your solenoid. Also before beginning to dial in a reactor it is always important to start your parameters in the correct place before attempting to dial in. So get your parameters right then dial in.
 
Either decrease the bubble rate or increase the effluent flow through the calcium reactor. Do not do both at once. If you increase the effluent flow this will raise the Ph in the reactor because more water will be flowing in. If you reduce the bubble count it will reduce the pH in the reactor because of less C02. Then you need to drip the effluent coming out of the reactor possible into the area where the skimmer pulls water in, this will hopefully work to get some of the excess Co2 out of the effluent and help raise the tank PH.
 
What's the pH of your effluent? My bubble rate is about 40/min. and my drip rate is about 1/sec. My effleunt pH stays at about 6.5 and my tank at about 8.2.

You need to slow down both the CO2 and drip rate some to let your alk come down it sounds like.
 
No it is decrease the bubble count. That would mean you are adding less Co2 to the calcium reactor which would increase the pH and thus dissolve less media, lowering the alkalinity and calcium.
 
Thanks everyone.

The Hardware.
Been up and running for about 90 days.
55 gal Oceanic ( @ 70 lb of live rock and @ 60 lbs of live sand )
Sea Systems wet /dry with bio-balls ( flow is 200 gph metered)
Pump is a IWAKI MD30RLXT.
To reduce flow back to the tank, I divert some water back to the sump and use a valve on the diverter side to control output volume to tank.
Sea Systems protein skimmer with custom 3/4 gal catch cup topped with carbon air filter ( producing very dry and nasty albumin ).
Magnum 350 with pleated filter to polish water
2 MJ 400 powerheads for lower water movement
Artica 1/4 hp chiller
Lighting is via-
Current USA PowerCompact Orbit Fixtures
36" 2x96W 1-Dual Daylight ( 10000K White/6700K White ) / 1-Dual Actinic ( Actinic 03/7100K Blue )
Precision Marine Calcium Reactor CR422 with Effluent Chamber running a bottle of ARM.

Testing hardware
All test kits are Salifert and all are not past the expiration date. :)

PH is also monitored with a Pinpoint
ORP is monitored with a Pinpoint
Hydrometer is a Deep Sea

All water is filtered through a 90 gpd RO / DI unit with TDS output at 2ppm.

I age with a Rio 800 RVT (rejuvenating venturi) powerhead all water at least 72 hours in 5 gallon buckets before adding to tank.

Now the tank occupants.
a few small mushrooms
a couple small frag of polyp coral
a small coral head with christmas tree worms
30 various snails
2 small sea hares
1 sailfin goby
1 yellow tang
3 bi-color chromis
2 small false percula clowns
1 small bubble anemone
1 lawnmower blenny ( is MIA and presumed lost or POW )
10 + mixed bag of blue and red leg hermits
1 green brittle star
1 small serpent star


Now the setting BEFORE the reactor.
I keep a log with aquarium manager so it's easy to pull the numbers.

On 7/09/06, Sunday at 12:33 pm here are the numbers.
pH 8.16
Temp 75.2
Salinity 1.0235
Ammonia 0 mg/L
Nitrite 0 mg/L
Nitrate 25 mg/L
Alkalinity 11.8 dKH
Calcium 370 mg/L
ORP 270 mV
Dissolved O² 6
Phosphate 0 mg/L
Iodine .03 mg/L
Magnesium 1440 mg/L
NOTE *******
This same day I did a water change of 5 gallons w/ coralife salt and RO/DI aged for 7 days.
NOTE *******

On 7/12/06, Wednesday at 6:15 pm here are the numbers.
pH 8.17
Temp 76.7
Salinity 1.0235
Ammonia 0 mg/L
Nitrite 0 mg/L
Nitrate 10 mg/L
Alkalinity 11.2 dKH
Calcium 400 mg/L
ORP 287 mV
Dissolved O² not taken
Phosphate 0 mg/L
Iodine .06 mg/L
Magnesium 1470 mg/L

On 7/14/06, Friday at 3:00 pm I installed the reactor and here is the setup.
Set the water at almost a drip ( meaning a too fast to count the droplets ). The CO² was at 1 bubble per second.

On 7/15/06, Saturday at 6:00 pm here are the numbers in the tank.
pH 8.07
Temp 77.0
Salinity 1.0235
Ammonia 0 mg/L
Nitrite .1 mg/L ( maybe, just a hint of color )
Nitrate 10 mg/L
Alkalinity 19.8 dKH
Calcium 370 mg/L
ORP 300 mV
Dissolved O² not taken
Phosphate 0 mg/L
Iodine .03 mg/L
Magnesium 1450 mg/L

On 7/17/06, Monday at 7:15 am here are the numbers in the tank.
pH 8.10
Temp 75.8
Salinity 1.0235
Ammonia not taken
Nitrite not taken
Nitrate not taken
Alkalinity 19.8 dKH
Calcium 330 mg/L
ORP 312 mV
Dissolved O² not taken
Phosphate not taken
Iodine not taken
Magnesium not taken
NOTE *******
Output from effluent chamber pH 7.80
This same day I did a water change of 3 gallons w/ coralife salt and RO/DI aged for 5 days.
NOTE *******

On 7/18/06 , Tuesday at 9:30 pm here are the numbers in the tank.
pH 8.02
Temp 75.5
Salinity 1.0235
Ammonia not taken
Nitrite not taken
Nitrate 10 mg/L
Alkalinity 19.2 dKH
Calcium 330 mg/L
ORP 314 mV
Dissolved O² not taken
Phosphate not taken
Iodine not taken
Magnesium not taken
NOTE *******
Output from effluent chamber pH 7.20
I reduced the CO² bubble count to 30 per min which should raise the pH
NOTE *******

On 7/19/06 , Wednesday at 3:15 pm here are the numbers in the tank.
pH 8.02
Temp 75.6
Salinity 1.023
Ammonia not taken
Nitrite not taken
Nitrate 10 mg/L
Alkalinity 18.6 dKH
Calcium 340 mg/L
ORP 308 mV
Dissolved O² not taken
Phosphate not taken
Iodine not taken
Magnesium not taken
NOTE *******
Output from effluent chamber pH 7.20
No Change made to reactor
NOTE *******

On 7/20/06 , Thursday at 6:00 pm here are the numbers in the tank.
pH 7.99
Temp 76.8
Salinity 1.023
Ammonia not taken
Nitrite not taken
Nitrate 10 mg/L
Alkalinity 18.0 dKH
Calcium 330 mg/L
ORP 290 mV
Dissolved O² not taken
Phosphate not taken
Iodine not taken
Magnesium not taken
NOTE *******
Output from effluent chamber pH 7.18
shut CO² off
10 gallon water change
NOTE *******

Two hours later......
On 7/20/06 , Thursday at 8:00 pm here are the numbers in the tank.
pH 8.02
Temp 77.5
Salinity 1.023
Alkalinity 16.0 dKH
Calcium 360 mg/L
ORP 308 mV

On 7/21/06 , Friday at 12:00 pm here are the numbers in the tank.
pH 7.99
Temp 76.8
Salinity 1.023
Ammonia 0 mg/L
Nitrite 0 mg/L
Nitrate 10 mg/L
Alkalinity 20.4 dKH
Calcium 440 mg/L
ORP 290 mV
Dissolved O² not taken
Phosphate .03 mg/L
Iodine .06 mg/L
Magnesium 1500 ppm
Copper 0 mg/L
NOTE *******
Output from effluent chamber
pH 7.82
Alkalinity 18.8 dKH
CO² has been off for 18 hours
NOTE *******



Ok,
couple follow-ups to post here.
On my bubble chamber I have a check valve for the CO² line to keep water out. However... I did disconnect the line from the bubble chamber just in case.

My plan of attack at this point is,
1.) Keep the CO² off right now but the water running and a good flowing stream through the unit to equalize the chemistry in the unit with that of the tank. ( BTW, the effluent water does drop about 10 inches down to the sump, right where the skimmer water dumps to also.

2.) Keep the CO² off until the whole water chemistry balances back out.
How long this will take... who knows? maybe more water changes!

3.) Don't add any calcium or ph supplements as I'm afraid they will raise the alkalinity even higher. Prior to the reactor install, I was using PurpleUp for the calcium and Kent Superbuffer-dKH. I know Kents will raise the alkalinity if I add it to try and get the pH back up.

4.) When all is normal with the water chemistry I will maybe attempt to restart the CO² flow again. I would sure like to hear some suggestions on how to keep this from happening again.

Thanks,
MO
 
This point with the level of consumption of calcium in your tank being very low, you need to run the calcium reactor at a very minimal level. The Co2 bubble rate at 1 every 2 seconds or slower if that keeps the Ph in the reactor below 6.7. That rate of flow coming out of the reactor should be drips and I mean drips. Keep the reactor effluent just dripping at the slowest rate it will run without stopping. Then as your coral levels go up and your calcium use increases you will have to readjust the reactor. I also would go to a different salt mix. Test your mixed saltwater to look at the calcium, magnesium, and alkalinity levels.
 
Thanks Rick.
Did and they were not as high as I would like but I'm now out and the UPS truck dropped off a 160 bucket of RC.

Should I wait a couple days for the levels to equal out before restarting the reactor?

MO
 
Yes I would wait till the numbers get better before getting the reactor back up and running. Your not in any need of calcium right now and I would wait.
I think the problem was the reactor was really running at a high level. And while they are great for adding calcium and buffer to the tank when needed. You can overdose the system with one the same as if you were dosing calcium and buffer in any other way.
 
Thanks Rick. I'll post when I'm starting it back up. In the meantime, I have reduced the water flowing out of it to 1.7 drops per second. when I start the CO² back up, I will start at the very lowest bubble rate I can get.

Thanks again,
MO
 
To show you the other end of the spectrum, my tank is 99% sps with a large clam. My calium reactor is running at a steady stream with the Co2 coming out at least 2 bubbles per second. The media dissoves in the chamber in about three months. And mine would not keep up until I added a second chamber. And I still once in awhile, month or two put some turbo calcium to bump it up. So at some point you will need that reactor to run like it was. :wink:
 
Also you may want to test using another test kit also, just to verify yours. It seems wierd that your alk doubled and your calcium barely chenged, uit should add both in a pretty even amount
 
If it's the Salifert test kits, ( pH, Alk, Ca ) and my Pinpoint pH meter all failling at the same time as me installing the reactor....... SHIT, I should have bought a LOTTO ticket..... The odds of all the test regiments and meter failing at the same time has to be HUGE!

I think I'll wait till morning and do my re-test.
I will say this, the pH meter has already come up to 8.12 in the last 11 hours. I'm sure another 24 to 48 will have everything balanced back out and my creaters much happier again.

Side note....
Looks like a few BIG turbo snail may be about to go " toes up " along with some of my mushrooms. The shrooms look real bad and are just hanging off the rock now by just their foot. If they don't get better by mid-day, guess I'll pull them off...

Thanks again everyone for your help.

MO
 
I was only referring to your alk test. All the rest sound like normal reading when the tank gets a reactor that isnt tuned in yet
 
Evening everyone.
Just a short update on the water chemistry 48 hours after shutting off the CO² to the reactor in hope of reaching water chemistry equilibrium again......

On 7/22/06 , Saturday at 6:00 pm here are the numbers in the tank.
pH 8.15
Temp 76.3
Salinity 1.023
Ammonia not taken
Nitrite not taken
Nitrate 10 mg/L
Alkalinity 17.2 dKH
Calcium 400 mg/L
ORP 300 mV
Dissolved O² not taken
Phosphate not taken
Iodine not taken
Magnesium not taken
Copper not taken
NOTE *******
Output from effluent chamber is the same as tank water ( tested both )
CO² has been off for 48 hours
NOTE *******

I am still letting the water drip very slowly out of the reactor at a rate of 25 drips per minute and this, per Rick's suggestion will be where I have the water flow once I start adding CO² again. BTW, the lady at PM told me I could not run the water that slow because a CO² bubble will get trapped in the effluent valve / tube and stop the flow of water all together. We'll see!

Thanks,
MO
:shock:
 
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