Plumbing the 210. Multiple challanges. Help needed.

[shse666]

I want to get my 210 going as soon as possible and I've started looking at the plumbing. Let me just say up front I'm not a plumber by any stretch of the imagination.
There are only two holes drilled into the tank. A 2" drain on the right side, and a 1" return on the left. Holes are near the top of the back wall close to the edges.

The tank came with sched 80 PVC bulkheads, pipe and fittings. I've laid out what I think is going to be needed here:

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So first off, I've violated one of Pete's rules by adding the T connector and ball valve. However it may just be handy to have a 2 inch drain ready to go.
Also I need some sort of stand pipe for the drain. Can I simply drill the 90 degree elbow at the top or do I have to actually elevate the pipe above the water line? My trigersys has a simple T connector for the drain line below the tank and I've never had a leak. Can I do the same and just make sure it is over the sump in case of an overflow?

Next problem is that I have a DIY 75 gallon sump with only 3 chambers and no place to put my in sump Warner Marine K-2 10 inch cone skimmer assuming I want to use the middle section as a 'fuge. So, either I have to "upgrade" to a longer tank and build 4 sections (LOTs time and some money) or plumb in a secondary tank. Last time I tried this I had issues with getting the tank high enough to ensure that the gravity drain worked and no overflows. Open to ideas on this one.

Lastly I want a manifold plumbed in and ready to be used before I add sand and water. I'm thinking of simply having 3 T connectors in a row. Any issues with this?
How much effort is it going to be to make a dozen cuts through the 2 inch PVC? I have a hack saw but should I go get a blade for the skill saw or table saw? What type? Will a masonry blade or carbide tip work?

I really want to get this right the first time and not have to touch the pipes again for a few years.
Let me know what ya think! Thanks!

--Howard

 

[shse666]

Alright. Looks like I'm flying this one solo........

 

[Mike M]

@shse666 wrote:

I've got two manifolds setup this way on my system. Just leave enough space between the T's for you to easily turn the valves. Measure twice cut once as the saying goes. I've also got my manifolds setup with unions on both ends so if something happens to the manifold, I can remove the whole thing and work on it. There is a ball valve between the manifold and the tank to facilitate shutting the water off to/from the manifold. I've got dual everything though so taking one part of the system out of service is no big deal. If you just have one drain and one return, you might want to have a ready made section of PVC with unions that you can put in place of your manifold should you ever need to remove it to service it or redo it. Or you can go really nutty and build-in a bypass line that runs parallel to the manifold. I went valve and fitting happy when I plumbed my tank which may not necessarily be the best way to go. [smilie=smile.gif]

I bought a set of those large PVC cutters that can handle larger diameter pipe and would NOT recommend using those. It has a hard time cutting larger diameter pipe, like the 1.5" drain lines I have, so I imagine 2" would be even worse. The cuts were also not squared up at the ends. I would look at other options like what you've listed and see if maybe others have tried the same methods or used certain blades that work well on PVC. Oh, and if you're planning on making a dozen cuts, it will probably be closer to 20 [smilie=wink.gif]

Can't really offer much advice on the other stuff you mentioned so hopefully someone else will chime in or perhaps you can try sending Pete a PM?

 

[steveo66]

Frank over at franks tanks has a amazing pvc cutter you might call him and ask him what kind it is I know it cuts fast and straight just thought I would throw that in good luck with everything

 

[Titus]

@shse666 wrote:

What about putting a T on the outside of tank bulkhead so you can extend it above the waterline for your air hole? Sort of like a durso with half in the tank and half out?

 

[shse666]

Yeah. I did a partial assembly this morning around 1:00 AM and I think I'm going to Elliots to get the threaded T connector in a bit and return that 90 degree elbow.

I do NOT want anything noticeable above the edge of the tank, in particular stuff that looks like grey or white PVC. I am not going to build a canopy for this. I like the open top look.

I've seen where guys drill a top hole and then connect a micro needle valve using some airline tubing. That allows you to tune the durso air rate to minimize the gurgle sound. I have to keep the noise on this very low as it is close to where the wife sleeps.

I've also thought about an edge to edge hang on the back 'fuge that I could plant with mangroves or something if needed.

I am still not sure what to do about the skimmer. Right now I'm thinking that I will elevate it and use egg crate to build a 2nd compartment in the existing 75G sump to prevent the pump from ingesting any debris. I will add in a secondary fuge later if the bioload requires one.

 

[reeferwanabe]

For the PVC threads, I recommend the Blue Monster tape for the threads. Much thicker than the cheap nylon tape and will not leak.
[attachment=0]ImageUploadedByTapatalk1352840565.441374.jpg[/attachment]

Lowes is the only place I found it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[shse666]

Well, I have all of the pipes cut. It would be helpful if someone would verify two things.
This is the drain configuration. I have the durso just higher than the tank itself and the drain just below the tank line. I assume this isn't going to flood my house tomorrow when I do a water test?

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Going to have to see if Marc will build an overflow cover for this. I don't like the way it looks.

Here is the bottom of the drain. I may change this to a spray bar instead of the last elbow. I have not decided just yet on that.

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Last issue, it looks like the return is pretty far down in the tank. I know the loc-line will break any siphon as I have them in other tanks. My concern is how many gallons is going to drain down into the sump and if it may overflow. I'm going to install a check valve but I know I shouldn't depend on it. I guess I could try and install some type of piping to move it upwards but that is going to look worse then what I have now.

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I estimate I may have to have as much as 45 "overflow" gallons to accommodate this out of my 75 gallon sump. That only leaves a "normal" level of 30 gallons.

 

[M@]

Return would be my biggest concern. I would be nervous with that much water drainage. Maybe take 3 or 4 links of the right locline, extend the left one up and out?

 

[shse666]

Good idea. I bet I could just buy some extra links if needed!

 

[1badbluehb]

You can run a T and stand a pipe up. Use schedule 80 so it's grey. At the top of the pipe you stand up put a cap and drill a 3/16 hole facing into the water. Should only drain til it hits the hole. May look a tad silly but will work. Also should look a lot less silly than your face when you flood your living room.

Just call me if you need help. I suppose you could do the same thing outside the tank as long as you put an elbow up top so it sprayed into the tank.

 

[1badbluehb]

Put a street elbo in the bulkhead and run a pipe straight up. Put another elbow on top with your nozzles on it. That will allow you to turn the nozzles as well. Put a small anti siphon hole in the "gooseneck" that's whatnot would actually do if it were mine.

 

[shse666]

Well, I at least have a temporary solution in hand for tomorrow. I can clear the top of the tank with the locline when it is doubled up.
Question is do I just roll with that, or install the check valve anyway in the morning.

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[bmonroe1951]

Just make one of your return lines above the normal water level in the tank. That way in a power outage it immediately loses syphon.

 

[M@]

I would just roll like that. You know that will get the job done.

 

[1badbluehb]

@bmonroe1951 wrote:

I think it still has to have a hole to brake syphon.

 

[M@]

@1badbluehb wrote:

It will just drain until the locline breaks the siphon. With the locline at the top of the tank that shouldn't be too much water.

 

[bmonroe1951]

Mine doesn't have any holes. As soon as one part draws enough air it breaks the syphon.

 

[ReefNut2010]

What kind of return pump are you using? Just wondering if that single 2" drain will suffice, and if it will provide ample surface skimming. Why not drill for a second stand alone pipe (towards the middle)? One could be the open channel and the other one the emergency. Just a thought. Also, keeping the bottom of the drain as is will help with bubbles. Just hang a sock on the pipe with some long rubberbands. A spray bar makes tons of noise and bubbles !!

 

[shse666]

Well, a static water leak test of the tank and sump went OK. No leaks found so far.

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I had to elevate the return line using 2 elbows just as suggested. Otherwise the sump would have overflowed. I have at least a 25% extra capacity AFTER the power fails.
No leaks found here either.

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2 issues. Tank isn't exactly 100% level. Seems there is about a 2 millimeter slope to the right.

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So far, everything I can find suggests against trying to shim out something as small as 2 mm as it may create more problems.

The drain makes me nervous. A 1.5 diameter pipe should not have any problems keeping up with the lifeguard 5000 and only a 3/4" return line but it feels as it its on the very edge of overflowing at any second. A whirlpool forms above the drain and hovers about 1/4" over the top. Even with the durso cap in place I hear a strange sucking sound from the drain.

Trying to decide if I need to add a backup drain somehow, lower the level of the existing drain, or just leave it all alone and pray it never gets clogged up, even for a few seconds.
Maybe the whole DIY thing isn't for me. I've not had this level of stress with commercial pre drilled tanks, even used one. Bleah.