Not an emergency but would like some expert help

V

vushnick

Premium Member
Hi Everyone. I've been having a very difficult time trying to get my reef tank going. I've started out about 2 months ago and have been battling nitrate issues. I've gotten it down to a reasonable level for about 3 weeks now but I still can't seem to introduce any zoos without them just closing up and slowing wilt away. Same goes for any xenia and kenya trees. I do have a 4 head candy cane coral that seems to be doing fine for about 3 weeks now. I gotten rid of all my larger fish and now only have some small ones keep to bio load down. If anyone around the carrollton area has time to come by and take a look at my set and help troubleshoot that would be awesome. If not, that's okay too. Thanks to all that have taken the time to read my post.

Water parameters:

ph 8.3
temp 78-80
amm tr
nitrite tr
nitrate 20
phosphate tr
salinity 1.023
hardness 120
calcium 400

Thanks again
Vu
 
I'm tired, so I don't know what "tr" stands for.

However, what you described makes me think the alkalinity of your tank is too high, and your specific gravity (salinity) measurement is too low. It should be 1.026sg for your corals. 1.023sg is too low.

If you are buffering up your pH to get a better number, alkalinity will rise as well. Too high, and corals like xenia and zoanthids tend to shut down. It could be other things too, but you didn't provide any other details to further speculate what's going on.
 
Sorry. Tr means trace. I should have just put 0. I've had the salinity at 1.025 before and it still didn't open. I will try to control the alkilinty and salinity and see what happens. What other pieces of info should I provide to help give a clearer picture of my system?
 
What time do you test, 2 hours after the lights come on or go off? I t is important to test both ways to see if you have any changes. Also, what is your water change schedule and are you using RODI water, and testing for TDS. Dosing/buffering schedule, what and how often. This information would be helpful to know.
 
I usually test after I get home from work(around 8PM). I have a 2x65w PC w/ 10k and actinic, 2x150 MH 10k and 20k. The PC are on from 10AM to 10PM and MH from 10AM to 6PM but only comes on every other hour. I am using a spectrapure RODI unit but I don't know how to check for TDS or what that is. I'm doing a 20% water change every two weeks since it's too difficult to do it every week. I'm using coralife salt mix and only dosing super buffer by Kent to bring it to a safe pH only when nec. Only twice so far. I don't do anything else. By the way, I did set up a small 12g nano without working lights and stuck one of the kenya tree frags from the same bunch and it seems to be doing fine. Same salt mix and all for the little nano as well. Let me know if you guys need additional info.
 
I am concerned that they are not getting enough nutrition. The salt contains some of the nutrients they require but not all. I suggest start with at least Iodine and a 2 part buffer, they should respond in a few days if that is the issue. Also, take a water sample from your RODI unit before adding salt or any additives to the LFS and ask them to test the TDS (total dissolved solids) to make sure the water going in is OK. You can get a TDS meter from Melvsreef/Marc so you can check to make sure yor filters are good. IMO your lighting is OK.
I lost a few corals in the beginning to these issues, low salinity, high TDS and not using good reef crystal salt and not adding Iodine and calcium. The branch in the nano could be doing OK because it’s not competing for nutrition but that is just a SWAG.
 
I see. I will take the water to DNA tmr and see if they can do the TDS test for me. I never thought about that. I do have a bottle of Kent Iodine supplement I can use and well as some 2 part buffers and 2 part calcium supp. Do you think things will start to turn around in a week or so time? Thanks for all the help thus far.
 
I have seen results happen overnight; the best advice is to go slow, start with the iodine, and add ¼ of the weekly recommended amount per day until you have added the full dose for the week. Do the same with the other additives. The Iodine will start healing the flesh and stabilize them. Test, test, test as you add, stop if you see a spike in any reading, or any negitive change in there condition. I keep a logbook with date and time of each testing. Also, IMO it is very difficult to get your Nitrates below 15ppm until you have been doing this for some time. Most LFS have told me 15ppm is OK, as long as it is consistent (no spikes). Also, some corals don’t like large water changes, consider 5 gallons per week, but watch you skimmer for changes in the collection cup.
 
Great. Thanks for the advice. So do you think just a 5 gal/wk water change is okay for my 90 gal tank? I don't have a lot of livestock so I'm hoping this will surfice.
 
I used to do 30 to 40gl on my 180 every 2 weeks and it never helped my Nitrates. I went to 10gl every week and the corals like it a lot better and the nitrates are stable at 10ppm. Too much of anything can be bad on your system and shock the tank including water changes. Watch your readings, if they start to creep up increase the amount until you find the min you can change per week and maintain stable levels. The goal is stability, and it sounds like you are getting there, it takes time to learn what your tank needs from you.
 
I know it feels like a long time, but in 2 months your tank is just beginning to stabalize and work its way through the cycles. I am not sure how many fish you had in there, but it seems like you probably had too many for a tank that is only 2 months old. Secondly I wouldn't really recommend dosing too much in your tank unless you are well aware of what you are low on and how each of the different parameters affect each other. Often times people do more harm than good by adding stuff. With only softies in the tank you shouldn't have to dose much if you switch to a good salt because the salt will replenish everything. If you add more sps and lps, then you may want to start dosing some 2 part or purchase a calc reactor. I have hadseveral tanks up and running for several years and have never added anything but two part. I have also never lost anything. Finally, make sure that you have a good skimmer. You could also add a refugium if you do't already have one. These last two things will help with the nitrates.
 
I agree. Being that the tank is only 2 months old you still maybe getting swings in nitrates from the cycle process that a reef tanks has to go though.
Being that the tank is not established, how much live rock do you have in the tank? When you started the tank was the live rock and sand already cured?
If they were not cured and you put them in your tank then I would have to assume thats where your problem might be coming from.
Gary

@zed102 wrote:
 
I have about 150lbs or LR and 100lbs LS and they all came from two established setups. I combined the two and that may have been where the problem stemmed from. I can't incorporate a refugium as there is no space left to put it. I have a 20-25 gal sump with some chaeto in the main compartment. Got 15 lbs of LR and 15lbs crushed coral in the sump as well. I have a coralife skimmer that is rated for 100 gal+ I believe. I also have an inline UV sterilizer. I don't think I'm missing anything.....
 
As long as the rock stayed wet coming from you established tank to yours then it should be fine. But, that much live sand from an established tank can sometimes do a lot of harm..
Also, I would highly recommend getting rid of the UV sterilizer if you plan to have a reef tank. They are great for fish tanks but will kill a lot of the beneficial bacteria that a reef tank needs.
If it were me I would keep up with the water changes and give the tank a little more time to settle in. If that does not solve the issue I would recommend taking out all of the sand and replacing it with new live sand or "dead" sand. Maybe keep a couple cups of your sand to seed the new sand.
I would assume that you are using RO/DI water as top off and to do water changes with?
Gary

@vushnick wrote:
 
Hi,

Zoa's don''t close due to use of UV units or the nitrate levels you posted. I would not add iodine unless you have tested for it and see that it's low. Salinity and alk are two parameters that could cause zoa's to close, you also factor in zoa pest's....nudis, pyramid snail's zoa pox, etc are thing's that can affect zoa's.

Cheers,
 
Yes, I am using my Rodi unit for both top off and water changes. I'm kinda wondering if the membrane in it is going bad. The original owner told me he had only used it for a few months and there's a lot more use left in it. Is there a way of telling if it is bad visually? I may try doing away with the UV light if the consensus tells me it is bad for a reef set up. Also, I don't see any signs of disease or predators during the day or at night with the lights off.
 
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