Next challenge... bubble algae

[debdp]

So somewhere along the line I picked up Valonia aegagropila. It started in my 12 gallon nanocube. I got an emerald crab and he was eating it, a cluster in one claw, a mouthful with the other. But one couldn't keep up. For every 10 I pulled not breaking them, 50 more seemed to grow in their place. I finally gave up, broke down the tank, scraped the bubble carpet off the backwall, killed the rock... except for one or two that had zoanthids attached. Those I carefully cleaned (SO I THOUGHT). When I set up the new 40 I put some of my corals in with the zoanthids in the 15 gallon holding tank preparing for the move. Well my 40 gallon has been up and running. The only live rock added was the ten pound rock my huge monti cap was on. All the other rock had been bleached, dried then soaked in RO water with Prime. Well some of that freaking bubble algae came in on my monti cap rock. As soon as I saw it I removed it, poked it with lemon juice, whatever I could do. I've tried like heck to keep it out of the tank but it literally multiplies overnight. And I do mean almost overnight. Sunday night I cleaned a patch off the pond foam, a 2 inch by 2 inch patch. The spot is already filled. My emerald crab died, no clue why probably OD'd on the stuff. Anyway the difference here is I didn't like my nanocube set up anyway so breaking it down was no big deal. But I love this tank... and apparently so do the bubbles.

Here's a strange thing... my display refugium is next to the tank. It has 18W PC light over the chaeto and some light falls into the suncoral area. However, there is a skimmer there and the hoses from my Eheim canister filter with ChemiPure Elite also runs in that section. I have chaeto in the back as well. But there's not one bubble in the sun coral side. So something has to be keeping them from growing. I saw one try to start near the overflow from the chaeto into the suncoral side, but it disappeared.

So this morning I set up a small canister filter (for 20 gallons or less) and filled it with Kent's phosphate sponge, and ran the hoses into the main display. I plan to move the hoses from my Eheim canister filter from the refugium into the main display as well. I've never had measurable phosphates, but it's possible the different algaes may be absorbing it.

The stuff is mostly on the pond foam and closer to the lighting. and only on one rock in the front (for now). Which I'm going to take out and clean.

Anybody have any other possible ideas, chemical removers to use, etc.

 

[rckrzy1]

raising alk to 14dkh worked for me. But you need to keep an eye on corals, I lost my rics doing this, zoas and all else survived ok.

 

[debdp]

@rckrzy1 wrote:

I have only one zoa colony, the rest are all LPS & SPS and gorgonians. How do you think they'd be affected. Also, I'm using API test kit. Would that be okay or should I plan a better test kit during this? Third, I'm using B-ionic. Do I just dose more of the alkalinity to raise it? I thought that it just maintained it, but did not raise it. So if that's the case what should I use to raise alk? Thanks!

 

[rckrzy1]

@debdp wrote:

I have only one zoa colony, the rest are all LPS & SPS and gorgonians. How do you think they'd be affected. Also, I'm using API test kit. Would that be okay or should I plan a better test kit during this? Third, I'm using B-ionic. Do I just dose more of the alkalinity to raise it? I thought that it just maintained it, but did not raise it. So if that's the case what should I use to raise alk? Thanks!"]

I prefer salifert kit. I don't recall any issues with lps or sps , but I'd go slow , maybe 1 dhk a day and maybe wait a day between. Regular baking soda works fine and cheaper , but you could use just the alk BUT that will raise your PH where as baking soda has very little effect, if anything a slight decrease.

And baking soda , not baking powder. The stuff in my fridge for air freshener is what I use.

There are calculators to see how much but I think 2-3 tsp's will increase 1 dkh in a 120 system.

 

[debdp]

Perfect, thanks. Thanks alot!

 

[joelq]

I've had a continuing struggle with valonia in my 90g, too. I have a couple in the rocks that are almost 1" in diameter! My API test kit reads 0 nitrates and phosphates (although I do have nitrates right now when it spiked when I redid my aquascape a couple weeks ago), but I'm thinking there's gotta be some in there for the valonia to feed off of.

I've tried the high alk thing that rckrzy1 described, but didn't seem to help my situation.

One thing I have to watch closely is the durso in my overflow. I check it regularly to make sure the durso holes aren't getting blocked, and take it out altogether every 6 months or so to clean entirely.

 

[debdp]

Yeah, actually I would much, much rather have the other kind of Valonia... here's a pic. I have a few of the large round ones in my 24 gallon and they're easy to remove/control. But these are a huge headache. Now I'm not an expert but based on research I believe these are valonia aegagropila.

I just figure for them not to be growing in my sun coral tank and refugium, they have to be controllable somehow.

 

[hegi]

I've still yet to see a emerald crab either that I've purchased or at the farm that actually eats Valonia. GL Deb that stuff is a PITA to deal with. We just resorted to cooking some of our rocks and I am always manually removing it at home to keep it in check.

 

[SgtHartman]

I have some of it too and hate the stuff. I had an emerald crab that I think was eating some of it because there was never any on the two rocks that he hung out on. He just disappeared one day a couple of months ago and now I have it on those rocks too. I spend probably 15 - 20 minutes a day trying to get it all and every day I find more. I've actually pulled out a few of my smaller rocks that I was having more trouble with. I'm still searching for an easier way to get rid of it so I'm tagging along.

 

[DaveJ]

Deb,

In that size tank your options are limited. I'd suggest a Dejardini tang, but you'd need a small one and then would probably need to find a new home for it. Dejardini and Sohals eat it up like candy.

Frank has sworn by Emeralds and apparently has had good luck with them, I haven't when tried. I got rid of all mine, I had a combination of 3 or 4 valonia species at one point after the Dejardini went in. He knocked it out in about a week. The shoal keeps up on the ones he finds in the 92, but there are places he can't reach. The purple tang, which was much smaller, was able to keep up with those but developed a taste for acans and zoanthids so I had to pull him out.

Manual removal is an option too but tiresome.... you can pop em with a needle on a suction hose while draining for a water change.

Other than those methods I haven't heard much of anything that is effective.

 

[SgtHartman]

Not to hijack the thread but I have a question DaveJ, will either of those tangs work in a 100 gallon?

 

[debdp]

@DaveJ wrote:

I had read where a tang might do the trick, and I would definitley have to get a little one... but I also have red macroalgae growing on the rock, so it might decide to eat all that first. Which is fine, I can always grow more. And finding it a new home is no problem either. I had an emerald crab, and it ate some, but it liked variety... some red macro, coraline and a bubble here and there. When I found it dead I decided not to replace it. It couldn't keep up anyway. Manual removal will be a real PITA... been there done that in my 12g. But I may try that tang if don't see any changes with these other options. Thanks for the info!

 

[DaveJ]

@SgtHartman wrote:

A single dejardini would be fine until it outgrew the tank, but that could take a few years or more. My Sohal is in a 92 and has done just fine.... he's moving into the 300 as soon as I can catch him so a smaller one of them would work. As always it depends on the current stocking level too.

 

[debdp]

For those of you tagging along, here's what's been done so far. I moved my canister filter intake/outake pipes from the refugium into the main display. Wednesday night I put in 1/3 of the 1 lb. container of the Kent's phosphate sponge into a filter bag (rinsed per directions) and put it into the canister filter along with the Chemi Pure Elite. Saturday a.m. I turned off the filter as it says not to run it more than 3 days to avoid leaching phosphates back. Then last night when I had more time, I removed the phosphate bag and replaced it with regular carbon and a half a pad of the 4x8 Poly Filter. I had planned to clean a few rocks, but once I got started, I ended up pulling out all the rocks that had bubble algae and cleaned them. Except of course my Monti Cap rock as that whole piece together is about 13" diameter. I also pulled out two of the PVC that I covered in pond foam which also had bubble algae growing in a couple areas. I attempted to pull some off the pond foam backing but that proved to be a bit more daunting. Little bubbles were breaking away and floating through the tank and even with the Vortech off and the refugium pump off they were hard to catch so I stopped that. I did a 5 gallon water change, siphoning out the bubbles growing on the sand. There were no bubbles at all in the back shaded areas of the cave built with the pond foam nor on any rocks that were in the back hidden from light.

I have not started the use of baking soda to raise alk yet. I need to figure out which phosphate remover to buy and I'll get a Salifert alk kit at the same time.

<u>QUESTIONS:</u>
I'm at a toss up whether to use the Poly Filter with the carbon and/or some type of Phosphate remover.

There are a lot of phosphate removers out there but I was wondering which ones are recommended. I read through many and there only seem to be a few that don't leach the phosphates back into the tank. I was sort of looking at that made by ROWA, but I'm just undecided. Also, should phosphate removers be something that's replaced either every day or every two days to get the maximum benefit or is that dependent on the brand? Whatever is chosen will need to go into the canister filter. A phosphate pad of some sort would be nice for ease of use. But I'm more concerned on quality of product and how it will do its job.

 

[Tj51]

@DaveJ wrote:

Hey Dave, I just read about people using a syringe to pop the bubble and then drain it, I have quite a few "bubbles," but my tank is to small for a tang and emerald crab not interested. The rocks the bubble algae is on are anchored, so my question is, have you heard of the syringe method working? Only other option is having wife hold a syponing hose while I try to scrape them.

 

[DaveJ]

@tj51 wrote:

Hey Dave, I just read about people using a syringe to pop the bubble and then drain it, I have quite a few "bubbles," but my tank is to small for a tang and emerald crab not interested. The rocks the bubble algae is on are anchored, so my question is, have you heard of the syringe method working? Only other option is having wife hold a syponing hose while I try to scrape them."]

Yep, a lot of work though. Most of the people I have read about doing it say its helped. The argument starts when one says you have to suction out the stuff and the other says just remove the green casing......

My opinion is popping doesn't help them spread unless its a mature bubble and pops on its own. Even then chances are the skimmer is going to get most of it and as long as you keep up with it, eventually you will win that battle.

 

[Tj51]

so if puncturing the "immature" bubble won't necessary increase the spreading of these, I can just scrape them off the rock with an exacto knife and hope the skimmer (and maybe carbon?) gets the seeds?

 

[DaveJ]

@tj51 wrote:

Yup... thats the best guess. The best guess also assumes popping them no matter if they are mature or not, will make them spread.

My personal experience with Valonia is that its much more likely to spread in groups, ie colonize, then spontaneously spring up unless ones broke off and floated into a cubby and grows from there.

 

[debdp]

Ah, well I spent about two hours working on a small portion. Drained about 8 gallons from the tank to lower everything to the top shelf of the pond foam and put everything in to the container with the drained water. Here's a link to my tank build in case you don't know what I'm talking about with the pond foam shelf. http://www.dfwmas.org/Forums/viewtopic.php?t=53424

I'd been trying to figure out how to "capture" the bubbles I'd be scraping off so they didn't just drop into the tank and while shopping at Walmart saw some bubble wrap. I cut a piece and laid it right on the water under the areas to work in. Worked great! I scraped off about 1-1/2 to 2 cups worth of bubbles and just kept piling it onto the bubble wrap. The bad part is I couldn't rinse off the foam backing so everything I popped... and I got squired a lot... would be all on the foam. I tried just pulling them out but they were really embedded on to the foam, unlike live rock where they just come right off. I ended up doing about a 10 gallon water change. The skimmer was going nuts all night and most of today.

I thought about getting some pin cushion urchins but their spines are poisonous... not sure about a tang because it'll need to be quarantined for a while before putting in the tank. And the tank is too small to house it permanetnly so I'd have to move everything to get it out when it's time to give it a new home. I may try a bunch of emeralds and then later only keep one give the rest away.

I'm doing daily water changes, 5 gallons per day, which I just started. I just got the my MD order with RowaPhos and a Salifert pH kit in case I try the baking soda.

So hopefully in the next few days I can go in and start scraping/siphoning the ones on the side closer to the bottom. At least they don't like the dark because they're not in any of the cave areas or under the rocks... they're in high flow, high light areas.[/url]

 

[debdp]

@rckrzy1 wrote:

What else do you have in the tank that you raised the alk with? I have LPS and SPS. Only one large AOG... but my sun corals and chili coral are very sensitive to swings so I would plan to move them. But curious if you had any LPS/SPS in the tank when you raised it.