My LED Analysis Post MACNA 2012

**DISCLAIMER** Outside of the graphs this is not a entirely scientific analysis. The images are all copyright Sanjay Joshi and Advanced Aquarist. This is merely my interpretation/opinion based on Sanjay's talk at MACNA along with our conversation since MACNA. Let me state that I have lit 5 tanks with LEDs and have switched my current tanks to metal halides.

Obviously the hot topic in lighting right now is LEDs and there are more opinions out there then options for them. People are using LEDs of all color mixes, wattages, and brands to successfully grow corals. I think the question is how do you BEST sustain and grow corals using this more efficient, long term cheaper lighting solution.

First a couple of definitions so we are all on the same page:
Lumen-total light emitted by the light source, as percieved by the human eye
Lux-amount of illumination provided when one lumen is evenly distributed over an area of one square meter
PAR- is any light in a specific frequency range of 400 to 700 nanometers that is needed by plants & symbiotic zooanthellic algae
PUR-Photosynthetically Useable Radiation. It is also known as "useful light energy"

I am going to use the Spectrum Analysis of an Ushio 14k Metal Halide bulb as the basis for this post as that is the bulb of choice by Sanjay himself. Let add in that he is running halides only with no supplements on his 500g reef tank.

Here is the spectrum analysis of the Ushio 14k:
image_preview
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Looking at this you can see a very jagged bell curve with spikes at: 360, 410, 420, 430, 450, 540, 575, 680, 700. These spikes prove key because these wavelengths are strictly in the RGB spectrum; meaning Red, Green and Blue. As you will notice there is no white. These colors mix together to give us white light. There are different temperatures of white light that we use the term Kelvin to describe. Below you will see a Correlated Color Temperature(CCT) graph. On this graph there are verticalish lines marked 2000, 3000, 5000, 8000, 10000 etc The horizontal line that crosses these will continue to either side of the graph therefore giving us the 12000, 14000, and 20000 that we are so accustomed to seeing. What you will notice is that the vertical lines extend beyond the horizontal line. Any bulb that emits light at any place on this vertical line is classified under that CCT. For example if you look at the 10000 line; at the top the color is almost teal yet at the bottom it is more pink but both are considered 10000K.

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The problem with LEDs is that each LED hits a much more narrow spectrum than a metal halide or T5 bulb. When you buy a blue LED (depending on manufacturer) you are getting the 460-490 spectrum, where as royal blue is 440-470 and cool blue is 470-500. Because of this many colors of LEDs are required to achieve the same results as a metal halide. Below is a list of some of the LEDs that I have found by different manufacturers and as you can see not all LEDs colors are created equally. Notice there is no white on here. A white LED is actually a blue LED with a phosphorus coating over it. The white LEDs in a fixture are there so that we can actually see into our tanks. Because of the narrow spectrum it would be very difficult to accomplish but we should be able to create the right mix of the colors below and blend them together perfectly to create white light(do not try this at home unless you have lots of time and money!!)

[attachment=0]led colors.jpg[/attachment]

Now for PAR. PUR is the useable portion of PAR and each different photosynthetic species will have a different PUR range to which they respond; which is why different corals respond better to different lighting. PAR and LEDs is a very hot topic and it has even been rumored that LEDs can not be measured with a PAR meter only a LUX meter: this is FALSE. PAR/PUR is what our corals need to survive not LUX. It is a common statement that (1) 3watt LED is as good or better than (3)1watt LEDs. I believe this to be false. 3 watt LEDs are actually less efficient than 1watt LEDs in their output and based on tests by Sanjay their PAR values in the are not as high take a look at the graphs below.

First is the Ecotech Radion XR30W(34-3watt LEDs) which has a max par of just under 200:
figure_2_radion.jpg
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Next is the Ecoray 112 LED (112-1watt LEDs) which has a max PAR of just under 600:
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Total wattage of the Radion is 102w, total wattage of the Ecoray is 112w. So the wattage is close enough for comparison. The Radion is a better full spectrum fixture using 5 different colors of LEDs where the Ecoray only uses 2 colors but the PAR values are not even close. This is one of those times where I think quantity is better than quality. If there was a way to swap out lets say 1/3 of the white LEDs on the Ecoray and replace them with UVs, greens, and reds then I would say you would have an excellent fixture.

Summary:
*Should everyone go throw out their 3w LED fixtures? NO just verify that they are covering the spectrum that your corals need to survive.
*Do I believe that LEDs are ready to replace MH in the hobby? NO but with some proper research you can achieve similar results.
*What is the right combination of LED colors for a full spectrum fixture? Based on the Ushio 14k spectrum analysis if I were to build one it would be:
-3 UV
-3 royal blue
-2 blue
-2 cool blue
-1 cyan/turqouise
-3 green
-1 pink
-1 red
-4 cool white
-4 neutral white
I would place the blue and (2)UV on 1 driver, whites on 1 driver, colors and (2) UV on 1 driver to be dimmed seperately. Obviously that is 24 LEDs so if you need more to cover your tank then just multiply each number by 2, 3, 4 etc depending on your total number desired.
*I personally would rather have a fixture with 100-1watt LEDs in the above configuration than 33 in the above configuration. Not only will you get better blending of your colors but based on the graphs shown your PAR/PUR numbers should be better.

Once again this is not entirely scientific, but is my opinion based on looking at the studies done by Sanjay on spectrum and LEDs combined with some logic. Here is a well thought out full spectrum fixture built by our own bimmerz viewtopic.php?f=1&t=92278.
 
Nice write-up. I went to Sanjay's presentation as well. It's funny... I walked away from it thinking about the use of lower wattage LEDs in large quantities as well. It seemed like a natural conclusion of the data he presented, but I don't think he actually made that statement.
 
@Titus wrote:
Nice write-up. I went to Sanjay's presentation as well. It's funny... I walked away from it thinking about the use of lower wattage LEDs in large quantities as well. It seemed like a natural conclusion of the data he presented said:
The statement itself wasnt made, but after listening, reading his work, looking at the numbers as well as talking to him its almost a no-brainer! My favorite statement that he did make was when he repeated the person who asked him: "You mean you can grow corals with no blue light?" when he was talking about his own tank!
 
@niteowl03 wrote:
The statement itself was made... said:
I guess I missed it, which is not surprising. I always have a problem absorbing an entire live technical discussion, as something said will peek my interest and get my mind thinking about it and then I don't hear what is said next!

The other thing that he said that struck me was that after all of his positive statements about LEDs and mentions of several of his tanks that run on LEDs, he dropped the bomb that despite all he had said, his main display tank was not yet LED. [smilie=rofl.gif]
 
Once Sanjay decides to put LEDs over his reef display tank I will consider going back to LEDs till then if its not good enough for him it's not good enough for me :)


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Sorry I miss typed.. it wasNT said, i fixed it! He talks all the time that he is testing LEDs on other tanks, but the his main display where he is "growing corals out of the water" is still running MH with no supplements at all!

Pampee you kinda read my mind, the change in my corals since going from a 7 color LED fixture to MH is totally undeniable!
 
Thanks for the great write-up and information. This gives me some ideas on what pucks to possibly order for the Vega fixtures I have. Someone around here has to experiment rather revert to MH [smilie=lol.gif]
 
@MBSL55 wrote:
Thanks for the great write-up and information. This gives me some ideas on what pucks to possibly order for the Vega fixtures I have. Someone around here has to experiment rather revert to MH [smilie=lol.gif] said:
Im experimenting right now...with a 20K reefbrite twin-arc bulb over my frag tank that I got for free at MACNA!!!
 
Good deal. As soon as I can order custom pucks from AI, I'll get some with UV and other spectrums on there to see what they do.
 
@MBSL55 wrote:
Thanks for the great write-up and information. This gives me some ideas on what pucks to possibly order for the Vega fixtures I have. Someone around here has to experiment rather revert to MH [smilie=lol.gif] said:
Hahaha

On my new softie, lps zoas tank I am gonna get back into LEDs either couple Vegas or a radion pro haven't decided yet.


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Well, you know which way I voted with my dollars. [smilie=wink.gif] From what I was told at the Ecotech booth, it looks like they are just adding UV to the Radion Pro but not much else unless I missed something. I don't know if you had a chance to play with the AI Director software at their booth but it gives you tons of control including showing a spectrograph of what is going on based on your LED color choice and power levels for those LEDs. It might be a while though before the Director is available. I think Ecotech also said sometime in 2013 for the Radion Pro.
 
Aaron,
Very informative. I'm currently running 28 Royal Blues and 28 Neutral Whites over a 75 gallon tank. I'm using an Apex controller and running the Whites at about 20% because they are so bright. I'm thinking about replacing some Whites with 2 green, 2 red, and 2 UV just to expand the spectrum to see what happens.
 
@mwilk19 wrote:
Aaron said:
Assuming you have 14 LEDs on each driver, I would go 2 red, 6 green and 6 UV on a driver eliminating a whole driver of whites spread across the tank. As stated above white LEDs really do nothing for corals its for us to see them, so replace that whole driver and turn your whites to 80-90ish maybe.
 
Excellent post! My whole 75g was given to me for free. It came with a PC fixture that barely had enough light for my toadstool and radioactive dragon eyes. Ive replaced just about everything except the 75g tank. Shortly after setting up the tank I realized the bulbs needed to be replaced and was forced into either $150 for bulbs, or upgrade. Luckily at the same time a member put his AI Sol's up for sale and made the decision easy for me. I've bought and traded some corals with other members on the forum and also at several LFS. Out of all of my corals I have 2 that have a slightly different color than the MH tanks where they originated. And ive followed the build thread of the new tank from the owner where my AI's came, but i dont see any difference in color or growth between my tank and his new MH tank. Obviously AI and Ecotech have spent tons on R&D and are using red, green, and UV LED's now, so I trust that they are beneficial. I also place an incredible amount of respect for those that have been in this hobby way way longer than I have. I am a novice.

So my question is are there species of coral that grow better or look better under a certain type if light? I don't know if I can justify the $250 per pendant to upgrade a Sol to a Vega just for a few More colors and separate LED dimming. I'm coming up on a year with my AI Sol's and am very happy with the growth and color of my mixed reef and i didnt have to run a chiller all summer. My SPS, LPS, and Zoas are literally growing out of my tank...knock on wood!
 
@FuDz Cwerner wrote:
...So my question is are there species of coral that grow better or look better under a certain type if light? I don't know if I can justify the $250 per pendant to upgrade a Sol to a Vega just for a few More colors and separate LED dimming. I'm coming up on a year with my AI Sol's and am very happy with the growth and color of my mixed reef and i didnt have to run a chiller all summer. My SPS said:
After spending a little time on any reef forum you will find the conversation of: my "xxxx coral" looked looked terrible under LEDs but colored up under MH or T5s and even the inverse. The key that you have to remember is that we are trying to replicate the sun and its spectrum/intensity and birdsnest A in indonesia may be at a different place for flow and lighting than birdsnest B.

I have a theory in life and I try to apply it to this hobby and I think it will help with your question regarding the upgrade to Vega..."If it aint broke, dont fix it". Now I understand that me saying that basically negated my first post but I would hate for you to upgrade and then your tank implode. Do I believe it would help? Yes, but if I were you I wouldnt change it. That statement is also contingent on the amount of SPS you have in your tank right now which tend to be the higher demanding corals, if that amount is low than if you begin to add more then it may make a difference, if that amount is high then surely dont change it. Too many times in this hobby and in life people jump on a bandwagon because its new instead of sticking with what works. I hope that makes sense!!
 
im still considering going to mh. i get good growth, but colors are a different story. im going to build a supplementation bar with uv, green, red, etc and hope it fixes the issue. if it doesnt, then on to mh i go
 
I had much better growth with my AI Sols than I did with T5 fixtures but I had some red corals turn more of an orange color. I had a tri-color that turned brown under the Sols but I increased flow over it and it colored right back up. There are so many variables involved in what works and what doesn't as well as large gaps in what we understand about corals. The Sols worked great for me and paid for themselves so I went ahead and got the Vega fixtures and it gives me the option to go with other spectrum LEDs, go wireless, on control, and set the lights for auto acclimation. Once the new Director is available, I'll be able to play with spectrums and up to 20 channels of LEDs. I'm willing to experiment and try on a large scale and it has worked for me so far.

Here's the way I see it in terms of cost. The LED fixtures pay for themselves in terms of not having to do bulb changes, reduced heat, and associated reduced electrical costs, hence I'm willing to spend some money to experiment. There is a large up-front outlay for the name brand fixtures but, let's say I decide I want to sell all five of my Vega fixtures down the road. Even if I take a $100 hit per fixture, all it would take is one or two T5 bulb changes to pay for that $500 depending on the type and configuration of T5 bulbs. I had no problem selling my Sols after using them for about a year so I easily recovered my initial outlay for the used Sols I had on my previous tank and probably came out ahead in terms of cash outlay.
 
I'm new, but feeling old school. I think LEDs are really cool and like all technology are going to improve at a staggering pace. I'm really happy with my metal halides and don't plant to switch until the technology is better understood and proven by folks who have been in this hobby much longer then me.

Err, what Matt already said. [smilie=wink.gif]

@Matt wrote:
 
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