Lots of questions on 75-90g Agressive FO Tank

M

MLord

I've been thinking about setting up an agressive fish only tank. I'm probably not going to put LR in there, but I'm not sure yet. I'll have a DSB though. I don't know much about fish only tanks....only had a couple reef tanks. So, that said, I've got a bunch of questions and need a lot of advice before I plunge in. First, I'll put up my wish list of fish I want. I most likely won't get all of these.
Picasso Trigger
Harlequin Tusk
Some kind of puffer....most likely a blue dot
Volitan Lion fish
Heniochus Black & White Butterflyfish or Copperband
Coral Beauty
Marine Betta
Snowflake Eel
Now, this is just a list of a bunch of fish I'd love to have. Questions about these fish....
1. Would all these fish get along?
2. Would this be way to big of a bioload for a 75-90gal tank?
3. Which order should I put these fish in?
Ok, now that ya'll know what fish I'd want, on to the equipment questions.
4. Do I need a sump/fuge and skimmer with a fish only tank? Or could I just use a canister filter or something like that? Would your advice on this be any different if I had LR in it?
5. I know lighting isn't of much concern because there aren't corals, but what kind of (cheap) lighting setup should I get?
6. Also, I'm trying to find out how much $ I'll be spending on this. So, if you could post prices along with advice that would be helpful. If you don't want to post to the public how much you spent on your system you can always pm me too.
That's all the questions I can think of right now. I know I'll come up with more as this thread moves along. Hopefully, on down the road, this will turn into a build thread :D Thanks in advance,
Mike
 
I don't see anything that won't get along, though the CB might be tricky as they are picky eaters and can be tough to get to eat with other aggressive fish in the tank.

Next goes to size of the tank... thats a lot of fish that get good sized for such a smallish tank. Go as big as you can get. You will want minimal rock in there as it provides sleeping areas and hiding places. No LR may work, but I would put some in there.

Yes you will need a skimmer, even if you go DSB. An aggressive tank demands good bio filtration since they are messy eaters and will create a lot of by product. Youll also be lacking a cleanup crew since some of these will eat them if put in there.

Tank 400-800 depending on brand, glass makeup etc.
Stand 200-350 depending or you could built your own.
Skimmer 400+ for a really good one.
Lights 200-250. T-5 or VHO would work.
Sump/Fuge 100-200.
Pumps/Heaters and misc stuff... 150 - 200.

Critters... 300-700 depending on sizes and where you buy them.
 
I'm trying to save money where I can so about the lighting, I have this http://tinyurl.com/3b8arc setup already. And for the skimmer I have an extra AquaC Remora with the overflow box thing. Would these be good for this setup? Also, instead of liverock could I get texas holey rock or something like that that would be cheaper than LR? I'm gonna try to buy my tank/stand on here to save some money.....hurry up tax returns! Also, are there any cleanup crew critters that the fish wouldn't bother? Could I possible get a chocolate chip starfish and maybe a cleaner shrimp or two? Conch's or anything like that? Which order would you recomend I put the fish in? Thanks for your help,
Mike
 
@kindbuds wrote:
I'm trying to save money where I can so about the lighting said:
Fairly certain that light would be fine for a FO. All you need is enough light for them to see. You won't be growing corals.

I don't know abut the skimmer, I am not familiar with that model.

I am pretty sure you could use that rock, others have. Do a search on it and see.

Clean up crew... I don't know if they would bother starfish but the CC star eats coral so you'd need to feed it coral for it to live. I'll let someone else chime in on if you can have stars.. if you can some linkia might help with algae though starfish can be hard to keep. Urchins possibly... but I have a feeling the puffer would eat those. Shrimp and Snails though, no chance.. the trigger and puffer would be all over them. Crabs same think... that leaves cukes.. those may be left alone (tiger tail). Maybe a small flounder?? They may need more sand space to survive. Sand sifting gobies, tho those may hurt the DSB more than help. Sand sifting stars would eat up your DSB critters as well.

You might just consider going shallow bed or Crushed coral.. something like that and rely on vaccuming the bottom and skimming. Throw in some macros into the sump.. that will help.
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@DaveJ wrote:
Fairly certain that light would be fine for a FO. All you need is enough light for them to see. You won't be growing corals. I don't know abut the skimmer said:
hmmmm I might have to do crushed coral instead. Although, I do like the look of sand. I also had the idea of maybe adding a pair of jawfish before adding any of the other fish so that they could build their den. Do ya'll think they would be ok? I'm assuming that if there was a fish trying to get them they'd dart back into their holes and be safe. Although, I don't know if the predator fish would hover over their holes waiting for them to get out, trapping them in it...

Do you think a long spine urchin would survive? Would the puffer injure itself trying to get the urchin? What about a lawnmower or starry blenny to eat algae? Would he be safe in the tank with these tankmates?
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@kindbuds wrote:
hmmmm I might have to do crushed coral instead. Although said:
You could do sand, just not deep if you wanted. Not much difference in vaccuming sand vs CC. Jawfish are the same as gobies, if you have a shallow bed that would be fine as you don't have to worry about them eating your sandbed critters. As far as would anything eat them... a lionfish will eat anything it can fit in its mouth so depending on its size, that could include gobies and blennies if they are small or the lion fish is big enough.
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If you plan on having puffers or triggers, you are not going to be able to keep much in the way of cleaners (snails, urchins, etc) as they will be food. Some with any smaller fish like gobies. If you are going aggressive, it needs to stay that way. I would avoid a CB as it probably won't get anything to it.

As far as sand, just go with a shallow sand bed. Holy rock will be fine as it is limestone and help buffer ph. It will grow algae and in turn help with biological filtration. Sump can be very simple as you are not going to be worried too much with nitrates/phosphates, normal water changes should keep those levels in check. You will need a skimmer, not sure if the remora will suffice on that size tank with the bioload you present. You can find used skimmers here for good prices. It doesn't have to be the best out there, just needs to function!

Tank...go with length and width. Height is not in my equation for FO tank. Size? as big as you can afford and have space for is key there.

Lighting you showed will suffice...again nothing special. More for your viewing pleasure than the fish. I am sure the fish will survive on natural (close to window, etc) or room lighting.

All I got right now...
EDIT:
You could always get a wrasse if you want to stir the sand.
 
@kindbuds wrote:
[I]@tonymac wrote:[/I][quote="If you plan on having puffers or triggers said:
Ok, so ya'll have both advised me against the CB. That's fine, I'm not really attached to it or anything, but what about the Heniochus Black & White Butterflyfish? Would he be ok? Also, what kind of skimmers would ya'll recommend for this 75-90gal tank?"]

Id go Euro Reef or Bermuda... you can find Euro reefs for sale used here from time to time. There are others that are good too but those two are known to be good to me.

I am not familiar with the other butterflys enough to say anything about how they would handle an aggressive tank, other than they wouldn't eat anything else and wouldn't fight. How they would do as far as feeding, like the CB, I don't know the answer to that.
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If you were to add a Heniochus, it should be one of the first few fish in there. Just so you know it is well adjusted and eating. It should do fine but you might get some "nippers" on the streamer.
As far as skimmers go, the 2 mentioned above are good, an AquaC EV120 will work as well. I had one for several years. Only reason I don't any more is b/c I had to sell that setup before I moved. Really, just need to get something rated up to 150g and in a price range you can afford. You usually can find that size used for under $200 around here. There is a nice one here: http://www.dfwmas.org/Forums/viewtopic.php?t=42683
 
Ok so now I have a flow/plumbing question. I haven't dealt with plumbing a tank yet so I'm almost clueless on it. Once I start setting it up....about a month or 2 down the road....I'll have a ton more plumbing questions. But for now, here's a flow/plumbing question. Would I be able to put a SCWD in the plumbing where it's returning water to the tank? Also, just for reference when I start setting this up, what order would you recommend I put the fish in?
 
Since you are doing a FO tank, you can put in a higher gph pump for your return and add a SCWD. The flow will need to be around 1000gph for the SCWD to function (from what I remember). You are probably not going to do a refugium for a FO tank, so there are no problems there. Just make sure you have some sort of bubble traps/baffles in the sump to help remove micro bubble.
As far as fish order...least aggressive to most aggressive. Assuming your list above...Angel and butterfly, then lionfish and tusk, then trigger and eel. If you add a marine betta (pretty but not active) it will need to be in the 1st group. This is of course, just my opinion.
 
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