Lighting Database

[niteowl03]

After speaking with Marc about a month ago while picking up some baffles, our conversation moved in the direction of lighting as Im sure 70%+ conversations in this hobby do. I posed the question to him if there was some kind of PAR/LUX database basically to say "I have a tank of this size and I want to grow this coral. What would be the best lighting to use?" I see these posts all over the marine forums and am honestly kinda baffled that something like this hasnt been done before. I am finally at a place with school where I feel I have the time to tackle this project if there is the interest.

I want to design a spreadsheet/database/program (maybe even eventually an app for phones if I can find a developer) where someone can look up their tank size and get lighting info with PAR/LUX numbers that has been done by fellow reefers.

Question 1: Would any of you even be interested in this or would I be wasting my time?
Question 2: If the interest is there would you guys be willing to post all relevant information(bulbs, fixtures, reflectors, height etc) to this thread so I could compile it?

I am going to post this on reefcentral as well because as with anything else the more info the better off we are. Please let me know asap so I can begin this project!

 

[jvswan]

I would be interested. It might get tricky trying to separate quantitative data from the subjective info. There may be much disagreement, to, as much of the data you collect will be anecdotal (gained from experience and interpreted through a particular user's biases). Perhaps that has been why no one has done it before. What works well on one system may not work well on another, despite similar dimensions. People may blame lighting for poor performance when really it has more to do with temperature, specific gravity, or magnesium content. Know what I mean?

I think that I've seen a MH bulb comparison chart. It might have been done by Holmes-Farley, but I don't recall for sure.

Anyway, I think it would be an interesting project. I'd like to see it!

 

[niteowl03]

I guess I did state that wrong. All I'm looking for is numbers. For example my 250w MH made 250 PAR on the sand bed with a phoenix 14k in a 55g tank.

Obviously if numbers could be provided a different depths that would help too.

Maybe at some point it could turn into something like "green slimer does best at 500 PAR" but for now I'm just looking at different lighting options.

Sent from my MyTouch4g

 

[niteowl03]

Looking for things similar to this:

[attachment=0]uploadfromtaptalk1331573312601.jpg[/attachment]

This was pulled from Marcs site but this would allow me to create the spreadsheet. And it could be compared to similar tanks with different lighting.

Sent from my MyTouch4g

 

[matt_longview]

I don't think it's hardly possible with LEDs. There are so many different emitters, drivers, white to blue ratios, bin spectrums ect out there that it's just impossible to be more than "approximately" accurate unless you're dealing with the chain manufactured fixtures. I think the data is out there for the AIs and the Ecotechs.

I think the best thing about ReefKoi's LEDs was that he was releasing a youtube video showing par numbers, spread and color temp of each light there in the beginning. I don't know if he's still doing that, but that's what drew me to purchase his fixtures in the first place... he gave data that backed them up. The same goes for MH with bulbs, reflectors, ballasts ect. I do think it would be valuable as an estimate tool, as long as it's just that... an estimate. You just can't use it as a straight up walk through. The best application might just be a blog that displays nothing but pics exactly like that above. It could have categories of pico, nano, 30-55g, 55g-90g, 90g-150g... ect. People who are curious could just browse through all posts in that category.

 

[Ashlar]

The closest I would think is Sanjay's lighting DB, accessible via reefs.com / manhattanreefers.com- http://www.reefs.com/lighting

Click on the tabs to see different charts / combinations.

 

[niteowl03]

That is kinda close. I am looking for PAR numbers though. I may have missed them as I didnt read the whole DB, but what I am trying to do is have a reference tool when someone says T5vsMHvsLED on my 55g tank that they can look back and see that on that tank "we" have tested say 25 tanks with 25 different setups. Of the 25 setups the MH out performed the LEDs most of the time so therefore if they are looking to grow SPS then the better choice may be MH. With the exception of chemistry lighting is arguably the most important piece growth in this hobby and this might also help to cut down some of the "rumors" or "I read somewhere" talk. We only have 2 things to go buy to judge the effectiveness of light, PAR and growth. Because of the varying chemistry in tanks growth would be an impossible project but PAR is numerical figure which can be tracked, documented and compared.

I would love to be able to present graphs or something that would say: on a standard 55g tank the average 250w MH outputs 250 PAR on the sandbed, the average T5 setup outputs 225, and the average LEDs output 200.

Im loving the input guys please keep it up.

 

[bimmerzs]

So something that combines something like these into one document?

http://successfulreefkeeping.com/learn/what-your-coral-needs/

http://www.3reef.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=45376&d=1321416898

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***taken from here http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1918643


Cheers,

 

[bimmerzs]

This would probably be of interest to you also concerning various tank/light combo's etc. http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2003/8/aafeature

Cheers,

 

[Guest]

problem you are gonna have is not everyone runs bulbs on the same reflector or ballasts. also some other factors is tank waer clarity and height of reflectors how old are the bulbs (new or burnt in).

that is why sanjay does his test through air so you take out many of those factors and each bulbs and ballast are under common conditions.

 

[bimmerzs]

Many variables for sure, even the flow characteristic's within a tank can cause dynamic light variance's. Like all attempts at such project's, it is important to understand that the data would be more of a general reference guide, and not all-encompassing.

Cheers,

 

[niteowl03]

@bimmerzs wrote:

This would probably be of interest to you also concerning various tank/light combo's etc. http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2003/8/aafeature

Cheers,"]

This is almost exactly what I am looking at doing. I understand that this cant be the "lighting bible" im was just looking to see if people would be interested in a good general reference. I understand different bulbs/reflectors etc are used and planned on putting all that into the database. Ron eventually maybe it could be combined with the coral charts to give a "par range" but thats a long ways down.

My goal would be to have data to show that this setup of lighting has in the past produced these par results. Then people can reference the database when buying lighting/upgrading to make a more educated decision.

 

[bimmerzs]

No par values but has "general" lighting setup's for specific sized tanks. (Not saying I agree with the recommendations) Maybe useful to a total newbie just starting out and will help's keep the "information overload" to a minimum. [smilie=lol.gif]

http://www.marineandreef.com/Articles.asp?ID=121
http://www.marineandreef.com/Articles.asp?ID=122
http://www.marineandreef.com/Articles.asp?ID=248

Cheers,

 

[niteowl03]

That's on the right track, but as you said no PAR numbers. And not the greatest recommendations either.

Sent from my MyTouch4g

 

[matt_longview]

I really think it's just too vast trying to include leds. Even if you only consider using manufactured fixtures such as an SOL you've still got different color spectrums and lenses to consider. I am not trying to discourage you at all, but just saying that there is absolutely no possible way that you'll be able to say "leds 200 par" when it should read 48 (24 rb, 24cw) leds at 700ma with 60 degree lenses produced 200 par.

 

[niteowl03]

@matt_longview wrote:

Read above, that would be exactly what it would say.

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[matt_longview]

I did read above. You hadn't said that. You said this...

It's very good that your plan includes mentioning the multiple specific details in each category and not trying to give averages.

 

[bimmerzs]

@niteowl03 wrote:

We do have to keep thing's in perspective, there are still a lot of successful tank's using the setup's outlined in that link. Budget-wise and functionality- wise, these would take a lot of guesswork out of the plethora of lighting option's out there. Newbie's generally start out with level 1/2 coral's, then progress to less forgiving coral's as they gain experience/knowledge. [smilie=smile.gif]

Cheers,

 

[niteowl03]

@matt_longview wrote:

It's very good that your plan includes mentioning the multiple specific details in each category and not trying to give averages."]

Averages can only be derived from multiple points of data. AKA If I dont have the data from the specifics i cant give any averages.

 

[niteowl03]

@bimmerzs wrote:

We do have to keep thing's in perspective, there are still a lot of successful tank's using the setup's outlined in that link. Budget-wise and functionality- wise, these would take a lot of guesswork out of the plethora of lighting option's out there. Newbie's generally start out with level 1/2 coral's, then progress to less forgiving coral's as they gain experience/knowledge. [smilie=smile.gif]

Cheers,"]

I was hoping this might take, some of the guess work out as well.