ideas on how to reduce my NO3

D

daveonbass

...or figue out where it's leaching from.

so I have a 58g tank, with a 3 inch sandbed and about 30-40lbs of rock. The rock was from an existing tank that was set up for years. When I first started this tank it was an upgrade from the old one. It's been set up and running for over a year. When it was first started, the water params never were a problem cause the tank was literally just moved to a bigger box, so I basically just aded more water is all. All was fine for months, then a few months ago I noticed corals just started to die. (sps) they would bleach and die...and I'd have to do a good WC, and then think about what to get next. But I never did, and the corals kept dying. Around then is when I started testing. And sure enough, high nitrates. I keep doing water changes, but as soon as they come down they are back up again. I feed once a day, a tiny pinch of flakes. Phosphates are zero...or undetctable on my test kits.

fish are:
1 magnificent foxface
1 bangaii cardinal fish
6 chromis.

I also have a 6" RBTA...i used to feed him but now it mostly eats from the water.

sump has a fuge with sand and rock, no algae cause there's no light down there. I run 500ml of NP Biopellets in a TLF550. And that is plumbed as the intake to the skimmer, a DAS EX1.

I am currently wet skimming.

any ideas I can try out?
 
ok it's late...but I'm always up late at night. It's 4:00am and I did these tests at 3:30am.

Salinity - 1.026
PH - 7.76 (a bit low for sure, but I don't have a reverse lighting schedule and this is a normal drop, usually 7.9 at night and 8.2 durring day)
CA - 360ppm (gonna either add a little, or wait to see if it's back up after a WC)
Alk - 8
Mag - didn't test (sorry)
PO4 - 0 (again, undetectable from my API test kit, so it's low)
NO3 - 80-160 (It's hard to read the different shades of orange/red, bright red, and a slightly darker red...but it's up there)

I'd guess that my Nitrates are up around 100 or so...again it's hard to read those kits...they are really only good to know high, med, or low (red, orange, yellow). All the shades in between are difficult to discern.
This is even more distressing because around 12 hours earlier in the day it really did look like the test was reading 40-80...and I was getting excited that the Nitrates might be coming down. But then tonight, they are back up. I was hopeing that the biopellets were starting to work more...but it seems they are phosphate limited and so might not be able to work properly. (so I've gathered from other reading on them)

Again I'm planning to do another large WC on the tank as soon as I can get that much Salt mixed up. I may do one LARGE WC, around 85-90%, or if that takes too much time (and stress) then I may space it out and do two or three partial water changes over the course of two to three days. I know it's stressful to the livestock...BUT...I want to do the one BIG WC to see how long it takes to get the nitrates back up to the current level. If it's a short period of time...like a week...then there is obviously a bigger issue for me to deal with.



Again, any ideas are welcome...

dave
 
Post some pictures of the whole setup and it'll help us visualize the system.

There's no need to do a 90% water change... 20% Max

Put a light on your fuge... You can do it for $10 and it will help.
 
It is a 58g tank, correct? Do a 50% water change and test your nitrate a few hours later. It should be reduced by half. Do another 50% water change, and cut it down again. You need to do a series of big water changes to get those numbers reduced. 80ppm --> 40ppm --> 20ppm --> 10ppm. In three successive water changes over 3 to 6 days (daily or every other day) you can bring them down. Nitrate is in the water, and the water must be changed to get it out.

Now if you don't want to do the water changes, you can purchase AZNO3. It will do it magically with a very specific dosing schedule that you must follow. Check the reef discussion forum because we just discussed this and I posted a link to my thread about it from 2007 when I used it.

We need to know if you have anything that causes nitrates in your system - bioballs, biobale, biowheels, bio-anythings. Socks, pads, sponges... it all must go or be cleaned every 3 days. Detritus in the sump must be removed. Clean everything fastidiously.

Your calcium is too low, so bring it up another 40ppm. Magnesium is important, so test that and let us know. Double check that your salinity is correct, such as taking a sample to your LFS and have them check. Compare those numbers to determine if your measuring device is accurate & calibrated properly. You might have them test PO4 too. If you have very high nitrate but 0 phosphate, I wonder if the kit is accurate.
 
there isn't much in the sump. The only thing I want to change about it (other than wishing for a bigger sump altogether) is that it had more sand in it's large chamber. But if it did then there wouldn't be much room for the pumps that feed my reactor/skimmer. There are no more sponge type materials other than live rock, and that is blasted with water motion at all times.

as far as the tests go, they are all API. I'm not really going for accuracy...i just want to see change. If all my params get low enough, then I may invest in more accurate meters. As far as weather they are working. I have used three for no3 and po4, are for alk and calcium, and I have one for mag...a seachem, plus a pinpoint ph monitor that I keep calibrated once a month, and a refractometer that I always check calibration before use.

sadly I do not have the luxury of going to a LFS...texarkana has none that are competent. They simply don't know crap about SW. I've been reefing longer than the owners of the only SW supplies in town. They often ask me what is in their own tanks...so I try to avoid them.

back to the WC. I have had to do a ful WC once before when battleing hair algae
 
shoot....sorry my phone posted the message...

anyways...yeah I had a bad bout with HA and got in under control by first doing a 90% WC. It was HIGHLY useful because it set all my params back to a starting position (or close to it) and from there I could monitor the true rate of change in the tank. Plus it made removal of bad water easier, cause there was less of it. It's drastic to be sure, but if I can get my water down to 10ppm no3 and it bounces back up to 80ppm in a week, then I can start to figure out where it's coming from.

but again I'll have to wait for a day off...and a place to store all the new water. y(my new 110g should come in handy...leak check anyone?)

dave
 
well, nevermind on the 100% WC idea. I can only hold 20G at a time apparently. I didn't want to full up my 110g tank cause it's haevy and I would never get the last bit of water out if I mixed it in there. So I'm gonna stick with 20 gallons at a time till the trates are as low as I can get them

I'm sure marc would agree...this is a better method anyways. Less stress on the livestock and all, should equate to fewer problems for me and them. So fingers crossed that my nitrates don't bounce back in between the 20g WC's. That would make this an endless cycle...
 
after changing 20g, I noticed that the tank water was halfway between the sand and the overflow...so that was about half the display volume. I always forget just how much volume is taken up by rock and sand. Anyhow, the new (initial) nitrate reading is about 30ppm. So not too bad. But I do want to test again tomorrow before I do a second 20g WC. Just to make sure the water is completely mixed. None of the livestock looks shocked. In fact it all looks more open. I hope that the next 20g WC will bring the nitrates to around 15-20. And then I think my NP biopellets may begin to work better.

thanks for the advice marc.

dave
 
WOW....I must have just missed you. Yes, I already have the next 20g mixed and waiting till tomorrow. I will do another 20, and then maybe one more just to really give it a knock out blow. Thanks again.
 
I did another 20g WC. Got them to go from 80 to 40ppm, and now 40 down to 20ppm. I still want to run a ULNS, but these darn nitrates are way to high. I am not worried about how to get them down, it's the keeping them down part I'm battleing with.
 
Once they are down, they should stay down with good husbandry. If they just start spiking upward quickly, there may be another issue you haven't mentioned to us.
 
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