ID please

R

Reefmike

Acropora ?

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Thnx,
 
Acropora sp.

I know I sound like a broken record, but I think we're doing real damage to the state of the hobby by attaching species names to corals that we can't really identify, no matter what it looks like. Makes us look silly to those scientists who know better, just like the whole LPS / SPS designation or the Brittle Star / Serpent Star lines.
 
The reason I want some type of name for the corals I have in my tank is so that I can label the images. This is especially useful when I'm looking for growth sequence images over a period of time. If all my pictures were labeled acropora, I'd have the worst time finding them.

Some corals are rather easily identified to the naked eye, even if the label isn't absolutely precise. Best guess works for me.
 
So if I want to sell a green slimer frag, I need to advertise it as Acropora sp.? :?

I could care less about looking silly to scientists. :D
 
How about calling it 'green branching acropora'?

From Eric Bourneman:

"Words of advice as we proceed, just general bits of trivia regarding preconceived notions if they haven't already been dispelled. Do not trust what the name of the coral was when you purchased it. Do not trust names you have previously associated with your specimen. As with my favorite example, everyone calls whorling or plating Montipora M. capricornis, even though this growth form is very common in Montipora and many many species exist other than M. capricornis....trust me when I say idenitfication of Montipora is hard. Similiary, the hobby tends to call any Acropora with scale-like radial corallites A. millepora, and although the radials are distinct and a good beginning, A, millepora belongs in the A. aspera group which has 7 similar species. Also, there are several others in other groups altogether that are very distinct as adult colonies, but very similar as small colonies or fragments, that have similar looking corallites.
"

http://www.forestalsfish.com/Corals/Coralid.html

If we can't even get the names right, then we can't even start to meet one of the club's goals- Increases knowledge in the husbandry of the closed marine aquarium system.
 
I think taking a hard stance on "we don't know, so don't try unless you are willing to bleach it and study it under a microscope" is a little excessive.

True, we may not get it right, but some generalities can still be useful. Unless you are a vendor selling corals that are in fact not as described, which is an entirely different matter.

Stating "my best guess is..." seems reasonable and not misleading.
 
I do not see the need to label some acropora species that most likely has the wrong name given it. If you are right 10% of the time guessing and I highly doubt that, then there is a real problem. Especially when you are using those wrong labels to most likely misidentify an acropora species on an ID web page that hundreds of people are likely to see.
 
I took a look at my SPS section of my ID page, and it looks like the IDs are okay. As I add future ones, I'll be sure to be clear in my descriptions.
 
I don't know why I didn't think of this earlier. The frag came from Robert last spring so I PM'd him the pic. He said "<u>it looks like</u> A. samoensis".

My opinion on the whole naming thing is - most people are in this for fun and enjoyment. We want to call our corals by a name. Nobody wants to show off their tank and just stand there pointing at everything repeating "oh, that one? It's an Acro. sp., and that one? It's an Acro. sp. as well." I realize the importance of "getting it right" for scientific study etc., but most of us are just in this for fun and enjoyment.
And as far as Borneman goes, he says that on the one hand and on the other is his book on corals with all kinds of ID info.
 
The link I posted is to an article on coral ID, so yes it can be done to a degree of certainty- just not by looking at pictures on the net.

The problem as I see it comes in when we start recommending care based on species- "that looks like a deep water acro, put it at the bottom" or "oh that's a millepora, it wants a lot of flow, put it right in front of a powerhead."
 
The problem as I see it comes in when we start recommending care based on species- "that looks like a deep water acro said:
I can see where you're coming from on that and I definitely think it takes more than just a picture.
When I posted this one I was hoping for everyones input to narrow down the list of possibilities to make it easier to obtain a possible ID thru further reading, etc.
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You crack me up ashlar...
Here is how I see it..

When they harvest coral from the ocean, it is obvious that there has to be some control from the governments involved... Or there would be destruction of the natural coral reef. I would assume that they can only harvest certain spieces, and to my knowledge the governments delegate who can harvest coral and what quantity they can harvest in a years time. So im pretty sure the vendor lists the LFS receive are accurate. And that is what I go by.. Maybe not totally accurate but close enough for me to label pictures..
 
*snort* Talk with Bob Fenner sometime about the collection practices, and some of the funnier CITES mislabeling that he's seen (sponges marked as soft corals, macroalgae marked as sponges, feather stars marked as macroalgae.. he's got a whole string of them that will make you laugh your head off.)

As Eric pointed out at the Coral ID workshop he gave last year, when it comes to Acropora, even with a microscope and bleach, two coral biologists often disagree as to species. (And that's when you DO know where a coral came from.)

If coral biologists can't decide species, do you really believe a government flunkie with a clipboard in fiji standing on a dock is going to do better?

The coral ID CD that he demonstrated depends on knowing where a coral came from to rule out species. During the break, he talked about how if you don't even know that, you might as well forget it (for Acropora).

His recommendation was to use the color and form (branching, tabling, encrusting, etc.) So no, it's not a. whatever, it's a green branching acropora.
 
@Bpynckel wrote:
So im pretty sure the vendor lists the LFS receive are accurate. And that is what I go by.. Maybe not totally accurate but close enough for me to label pictures.. said:
This is the rub and how the misinformation is started. In most cases the species is not listed by the vendor or mislabeled. In other cases the store gets it in as Acropora sp. and tries to give it a name.

To put a label on a picture IS a good thing but unless you are absolutely sure it would be improper to label an SPS down to species. This only propogates bad information through out the hobby. As Scott has pointed out and Eric, others as well, it is best to use color and form as in Blue Tipped Acropora.

Ask some of the local vendors about the horror stories of distributors and their labelling of livestock.
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