Ick revisited... - Hyposalinity failed?

M

Meli

[At what point is hyposalinity considered inaffective against ick? We've had our fish in hypo for 3 weeks now and we're still getting new cyst on the Emperor Angel. While it appears that all, or at least most, of his original spots are gone, he keeps getting new ones. I have been very very careful to make sure the salinity does not rise above .009. I've checked it at least once a day and usually 2-3 times. This week we fought a high nitrite and low PH battle, but that does seem to be under control now. Will the harmfull levels effect their healing time? How long should I wait before trying a different approach? Thanks!

Melissa]
 
[You might be unfortunate enough to have the low salinity tolerant kind. I'm not sure if you can lick it without medication at this point. You might want to PM Amanda and ask her as she is the expert! TealCobra knows quite a bit about Ich also.]
 
[One of the things I think might be an issue is just stress from the water conditions. When we had to QT the fish we didn't have an already cycled QT tank, so we've had to go through the tank cycling with too much bio-load and daily (sometimes twice daily) water changes of 20-50% trying to keep ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates in check. This week the ammonia settled down to 0 finally, but the nitrites were in the red on the test card (I forget the exact number, but that's obviously bad). Treated the water with AmQuel+ and 50% water changes each day for three days, and now the nitrites are about .3 (not zero, but getting there). Also, the PH crashed down to about 7.7, and we've had to raise it back up to 8.2.

In a way I'm surprised we've only lost the lawnmower blenny to this point, and I'm not convinced that water quality hasn't just been an ongoing source of stress that has hindered the effectiveness of the hypo. Now, neither Melissa nor myself are experts with saltwater tanks by any stretch, but I'm hoping that with the tank looking like it is getting on towards cycling (it's been almost 4 weeks) and the water quality stabilizing, maybe the stress will go down and the new ick spots will go away as well. The original spots are all gone, and only the emperor angel still shows any spots at all.

Tangent ... I gotta say, as many posts as I read here and elsewhere about significant others having major problems with the hobby, it's cool that this is something that both of us are equally into this stuff and it's a hobby that we really enjoy doing together :) We just have to get the little guys well!]
 
[oh ... we've checked the calibration of the refractometer multiple times. The one element we *have* managed to keep right where it should be is the salinity :)]
 
[Most people purchase an ATC refractometer. Auto Temperature Compensating... this shouldn't be an issue.]
 
[I'm not a big fan of hypo, fish drink via osmosis.
A fish that lives in salt water will have somewhat salty water inside itself. Put it in the bathtub said:
Granted 1.009 isn't nearly as low as freshwater, but I'd imagine its a little stressful on a fish.

It sounds like you have a QT in progress so your on the right track, be careful with raising the tempature until you get the nitrites to 0, higher tempatures will yeild less dissolved O2 in the water, and nitrite irritates the gills, both make it more difficult for the fish to breathe.

Check out http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ichartmar.htm]
Click to expand...
 
[Hmmm. I never gave that much thought. So you lower the temperature in your home to 68F to calibrate it, or wait for the weather outside to be that temp? Or you want the distilled water at that temperature?]
 
[I rechecked the calibration again making sure to following the instructions completely and it appears the refractometer is just fine. I have also sent a PM to Amanda, but have not heard back from her yet. Since yesterday the Emperor has started rubbing up against things which is unusual for him. He had not been doing that. However, where he's rubbing I see no signs of ick. What tends to happen with him is, he get down to about two spots left on his fins and then adds about 4 or more to his fins. He gets close to being cleared up, but never all the way. He's still eating well and we are adding garlic xtreme to his food also. We do finally have the PH at 8.2 and nitrites at 0. So, the water quality should not be a problem at this point. My question is, was the poor water quality nitrites at >3.3 and PH at 7.7 causing stress and keeping him from healing? I assumed that since hyposalinity creates an environment where ick cannot live period we would not need to be concerned about fish stress causing them to be reinfected. Is my logic wrong here? Secondly, I asked this question before, but I want to make sure I stated the question correctly and I understood the answer correctly. I'm seriously considering copper treatment for the emperor if he starts showing increased signs of illness. Can I use copper at .009 or will I need to raise it back to .024? Last question, how long can we safely leave these guys in hypo? Thanks again.

Melissa]
 
[Thanks for the information. I sent Andrew an email and will hopefully hear something from him soon. Right now I'm thinking about setting up a little 10 gallon tank and moving just the emperor and one of the biowheels (from the QT). I know I'll have the ammonia, nitrite, and PH battle again, but I'll just have to deal with that. I really don't want to copper the current QT tank since he's really the only one that needs any further treatment. We were also hoping to set that tank up as a coral tank and from what I understand once we dose with copper, we can't use it for corals. Thanks again for all your help. I really don't want to loose this guy. Beside the fact he was an expensive fish, he just has an incredible personality. He's such a bully to the other fish, but he's so sweet and interactive with us. He's a great guy and I really want to keep him alive.

Melissa]
 
[You currently have nitrite readings of 3.3? It is a strange reading, but any nitrite is highly toxic for fish.

pH is too low, and should be 7.9 at the lowest. Perhaps an airstone hooked up to a pump outside would help elevate pH levels in the tank.]
 
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