I think I found the source of my copper problem.

V

vushnick

Premium Member
I have a set up that's been up for 3 months now and a fellow hobbyist came by to help troubleshoot my inability to keep any zoas or coral. He concluded that the rocks I acquired my have been from a tank that had copper treatment. I will try to get that tested in the coming week. If in deed copper is present. Is there a way of cleaning the rocks and sand to eliminate all the copper from it? Or will I have to just sell it to people w/ FOWLR and start over?
 
If you are able to keep inverts and other corl's then there may be another issue you are facing. What are your tank parameters, how do you check salinity, dosing anything to the tank. I have seen hugh salinity and alk issues cause zoa problems. What fish do you have in the tank? You can also run some polyfilter, it will turn a different color depending on the pollutant. If you have a red reef lobster that's alive, it's highly doubtful that you have a copper issue but anything's possible.

Color Pollutants Being Removed
Blue Copper
Red Iron
Green Free Copper ions
Brown Normal organic load
Black Heavy organic load

Poly Filter Removes:

•Harmful Organics
•Toxic Ammonia and Nitrite
•Heavy Metals
•All Forms of Phosphate
•Medications after Treatment
 
My water param are good. I've been trying to get the nitrates down since the start of the tank but DNA tested the water probably about 7 times so far and they can't find anything wrong.

ph 8.4
temp 78
nitrate 20
nitrite 0
amm 0
phosp 0
salinity 1.025


I am keeping a small biocube on the side using the same water mix and all and it seems to be fine. I was told it could be trace copper amounts because there isn't any corraline algae growth at all during the last 3 months. I've introduced new snails to it and they've all parished. All my nassarius are starting to die as well. The only inverts left alive are the lobster and fire shrimp. What else should I look to do instead of the copper testing. I sure hope it's not b/c that will be a pain to replace.
 
might look at the lobster as a snail killer i had a purple lobster and saw him go after live snails
 
He may not be the problem b/c the nassarius that are slowing dying. They are becoming less active and turning onto their sides. No signs of physical abuse. Also, all the brown mushrooms that I had growing on rocks that came from a reef tank are starting to curl up after 3 months. And I heard it's real hard to kill shrooms.
 
What is your alk, ca and mg levels? high mg, in the 1700+ range can have an impact on snails.

While your nitrates are a bit high, they shouldn't be leading to snail death, though it can at higher levels as well.

With snails, the first thing to rule out when you see them in distress is acclimation. If you get snails from a local shop its harder to determine if they were properly acclimated prior to you purchasing them. Sometimes the effects are immediate, sometimes it takes a few days or a week to see the effects.

While trace copper 'could' be the problem, I'd look to other things first while eliminating it from the equation. A copper test or poly filter will tell you pretty quickly if it is a problem or not. Being that you have only been up for 3 months, I would be looking at general setup and water quality issues first before zeroing in on something like copper.

Also little or no coraline algae isn't that uncommon in a new tank, sometimes it takes a long time to start taking off.
 
My Ca level is at 400, unsure of Mg, alk is 107. I went to get a quick water test for copper at Petsmart and it came up at 0.3ppm using a test strip. Don't know how reliable it is but that seems pretty high. DNA said they can test it with a meter. Is that pretty accurate compared to say...salifert test kits? If it is indeed a copper problem, what would you rec I do? I've gotten two different responses. One said the rocks and substrate had to go along with flushing the tank and system with a vinegar mix. Another LFS told me that cuprisorb would take care of it. Anyone have any insight?
 
@vushnick wrote:
My Ca level is at 400 said:
that alk reading.. what unit of measure is that in? if that is ppm that is 6dkh which is really low.

If that copper reading is correct, that is 3 times a lethal dose of .1ppm. Did you test your other tank as a control?
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Sorry, I will have to double check on the alkalinity level again when I get home tonight. It was written on a sheet by DNA and they didn't make any comments about the water chemistry at all.
 
I did check the alkalinity. The Dkh is 7 for both the nano and the 90 gal. DNA also did the copper test for me today and said it was only 0.01 or 0.02. Not sure what to do now. I may get a 3 opinion and see what they say.
 
@vushnick wrote:
I did check the alkalinity. The Dkh is 7 for both the nano and the 90 gal. DNA also did the copper test for me today and said it was only 0.01 or 0.02. Not sure what to do now. I may get a 3 opinion and see what they say. said:
RUN POLYFILTER........RUN POLYFILTER........RUN POLYFILTER........RUN POLYFILTER........RUN POLYFILTER........RUN POLYFILTER........RUN POLYFILTER........RUN POLYFILTER........RUN POLYFILTER........RUN POLYFILTER........RUN POLYFILTER........RUN POLYFILTER........RUN POLYFILTER........RUN POLYFILTER........RUN POLYFILTER........RUN POLYFILTER........RUN POLYFILTER........RUN POLYFILTER........RUN POLYFILTER........RUN POLYFILTER........RUN POLYFILTER........RUN POLYFILTER........RUN POLYFILTER........RUN POLYFILTER........RUN POLYFILTER........RUN POLYFILTER........it will either remove any doubt or confirm copper contamination. A better option is to buy test kit's and run your own test, doing either of these will remove any doubt. Are you acclimating these snails?????
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Yes. As directed by the LFS. The nassarius snails have come from one of the original tanks and been in there since day one, but are now starting to die.
 
@vushnick wrote:
Yes. As directed by the LFS. The nassarius snails have come from one of the original tanks and been in there since day one said:
So how did you acclimate them....???? Did you reacclimate them when moving from original tank to this tank??
Click to expand...
 
Sorry, I think I may be confusing you. I had turbo, astrea, and nerite snails die after a few days of putting into the tank. I acclimated them by placing the bag they came in into the tank for 2 hours and then drip acclimating them for another hour. The nassarius has been in the tank since I set it up and has just now started to die. Hope that clears up some confusion. BTW, I have some PURA filtration pad. Is that similar to poly filter?
 
@vushnick wrote:
Sorry said:
PURA only gets rid of phosphates as far as I know, Poly gets rid of a lot more as I linked prior and also turns colors to tell you whats in the water. Snails are pretty hardy, high salinity and high magnesium as well as copper can take them out. Floating for 2 hrs is a long time I usually float 15-20mins to bring them to the tanks temp them start adding water to the bag every 5 minutes. When the bag gets nearly full I pour off half the water then start adding water again every 5 minutes till full, then add them to the tank. I find it hard to believe that you would have copper levels x3 the lethal dose and still have any shrimp, lobsters or corals alive. The polyfilter is easy and doesn't leave doubt....and saves gas. I think something simple is causing this. How many snail's are we talking about, do they just roll over and die or have you observed damage to their shell or just empty shells. If the shells are empty then suspect the lobster or perhaps a mantis or bad crab.
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The salinity is at 1.025, so that is fine. I haven't gotten it tested for magnesium yet. the snails basically rolls over and die. No damage to the shell or flesh. There hasn't been any coralline growth on any of my rocks either.
 
Replace the valve with PVC/Plasic, run some carbon or poly filter, and do some water changes would be my advice. :D
 
I agree with Bill. And make sure it is the product named Polyfilter, not some off brand fuzzy pad. Polyfilter is a very thin white sheet that changes color depending on what it pulls out of the system.
 
I got a lot of people telling me to just overhaul the whole think and start over to remove all doubts. There's a consensus that the fitting can cause enough copper leakage to damage all the live rocks to the degree comparable with copper treatment for diseases.
 
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