Hypo salanity treatment on the 560 gal tank

[tnn1567]

We ran into a new strand of ick which we have never dealt with before. We have black ick on several of the fish. I am debating if I should remove the fish out of the 560 gal tank and put it in the 150 gal tank that I will be picking up from Servo or remove all the corals and put it in the 150 gal tank.

Should I also remove the live rocks as well. Wow, I need containers if I do go that route!!! This is going to be one of the biggest hypo-treatment that I have done. I have done 4 hypo-salnity and have been success 3 out of 4. I have always hate to QT my fish but, I guess it doesn't hurt to have some healthy fish.

I already know that I am going to do a hypo treatment and because of this, I know I am going to lose some fish in the process which will probably be $500 (only a couple of fish which will be replaced in the future) to $1500 (where everyone get wiped out) dollars loss in fish.

Please post your thoughts as this forum has many great members that give great advice.

 

[feasible]

Take all the fish out to the 150. Hypo the 150 and fallow the main tank.

I wish you luck. Please let us know how it goes.

 

[waterbeing]

Tri,
Wow... sorry to hear that. I voted and then after I thought more about it I think I'd change my mind. Here's some thoughts:
1. Since this is black ich... will it respond to hypo as well as normal ich. I've heard of it before, but can't remember reading about treatment. *If* you have to resort to something other than hypo to cure them, then you would be adding it to the 560g and having to deal with any after effects (copper contamination,etc) even when they were well. Yes, I do believe it would eventually leach out, but something else to consider.
2. While I prefer to leave some rock in my hypo tank, it does cause a large ammonia spike as the animals (not bacteria) in the live rock die from the hypo too. In my experience, the 'mini-cyle' is over and stable within a week, but you have to be ready with massive water changes (which you will need in any case) to combat it and it's especially bad since they are sick already. The plus side is that you just do normal maintenance after that for the remaining time *and* you get the display and fish all clear/well simultaneosly.
3. I do have a 45g that is at 'half-hypo' now and can convert it to help with some of the tangs if that will help any too and/or we can help make up the RO/DI needed for the changes if that will help any.

Doug

 

[feasible]

Well curse me for not reading the details that is was black ich.

You will need to do as Matt said as AFAIK that is the only real effective treatment for black ich. The best best will take the fish out of the main into the 150, treat the fish and let the main lie fallow long enough to break the cycle to get rid of it. Unfortunately this means several months as the parisite can live in the substrate for several months without a host.

Once again. Good luck!

 

[tnn1567]

Matt, I didn't realized black ick is harder to fight. I am going to do more research on this. I am going to place an order for formalin.

Keep in mind, I have combination of white and black ick. The black ick came from TropicalFishOutlet.com. :x Also, I am not even sure if it is black ick. Also, keep in mind that I also have a lot of small fish.

 

[Ashlar]

Remove to the 150, treat with hypo (for the regular crypt) and set up a series of buckets or tubs to do formalin baths.. Black ich is a bit easier to kill than regular ich, but as Mike mentioned, starving it of a host takes longer.

Sources disagree about whether or not black ich is resistant to hypo. Were it me, I'd just leave the main tank fallow, rather than trying to 'treat' it.

 

[melev]

Honestly, I think you need to set up a few tanks to house your tangs. Almost like a fishstore does, so they don't fight in the much smaller tank. You might talk with Faith & James to see if they have those old tanks I helped build, as they had plenty of cubbies.

Whatever you treat the fish with, it should be out of the main reef tank. Let that lie fallow. You could try to contact ATJ (from the Marine Ich link on our site) to learn more about black Ich, or contact Bob Fenner at WetWebMedia.com or Anthony Calfo at readingtrees.com for some assitance. Amanda might have some thoughts as well.

 

[DalaiTom]

Tri,
If the treatment you choose won't harm the tank...I have a 125 gallon tank that you could borrow for the treatment. It's a 6' long tank so it should hold a fair amount of tangs comfortably for the treatment period.

 

[tnn1567]

After debating with myself, I have decided to go with your suggestion. I am going to borrow the 125 gal tank from Tom, 150 gal from Servo which I purchased, and contact fish2morrow to see if I can borrow the 100 gal. I am also going to use the 400 gal tank to make my RO water for water changes.

If anyone has any equipments in the Keller and mid-cities area laying around, I would like to borrow.

I am going to break the entired 560 gal tank down to catch each fish. As for the manderian golby, I don't think it will survive hypo.

 

[eman]

I have a 24g nano as well as a 55g that you can borrow.

 

[patteto]

Tri,

You can get the mandarin thru hypo. I have done it.

The key I think it to get some basic filter material that pods can get in. You will need in essence 3~4 batches of the material.

Then follow this protocol:
1. Place filter material in sump where the pods are for a few days to get the process started.
2. Take a batch of filter material out of the sump and place in the hypo tank.
3. The next day, take out the first batch and add a second batch to the hypo tank.
4. Take the first batch of filter material and boil it for about 20 min on the stove. This will kill all the Ich on it.
5. Rinse with RO water and add it back the sump. Let it sit there for a few days before it is used again.
6. Repeat step 1~5 until you are done with Hypo.

Also, treat the fish to lots of baby brine shrimp and brine shrimp.

It is a royal pain in the arse but it can be done. I have a 15 gal QT setup you can borrow but not for a few weeks. I have yellow tang in QT at the moment doing the 3 day transfer method to kick the ich.

 

[Ashlar]

@patteto wrote:

Err.. umm.. until about the sixth week, you're moving ich from the main tank to the qt every time.

 

[melev]

I'd leave the mandarin in the reef tank. They have an oily slime coat that is very resistant to ich, and it is reasonably uncommon for them to contract the pests.

I know that is just an act of faith on my part, but mandarins are not referred to as ich magnets like tangs are. You could contact Kelly Jedlicki on the MarineDepot fish forum to see what she suggests.

I'd try to keep it near as much LR as possible.

 

[One Trick Pony]

Black Ich is actually caused by an infestation of tiny Genus Paravortex member turbellarian flatworms.
http://saltaquarium.about.com/cs/compldiagnodisease/a/aa041701.htm

 

[fperkins]

Pro, Kent, Fenner suggest freshwater dips in combination with Lysmata Shrimp, Gobiosoma gobies, etc (to get the worms off the rock and sand).


http://www.wetwebmedia.com/fshwrmdisfaqs.htm

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-10/sp/feature/index.php


Certainly seems a better option than filling the tanks (and your home) with a bunch of toxic stuff.

 

[patteto]

@Ashlar wrote:

Err.. umm.. until about the sixth week, you're moving ich from the main tank to the qt every time."]

Scott,

I think you may be semi correct, in that for awhile you are possibly moving ich from the main to the QT but I don't think it is the full 6 weeks, more like 2. If you read the article on Hypo treatment at http://www.petsforum.com/personal/trevor-jones/hyposalinity.html
it talkes about the full life cycle of Ich to be about 2 weeks.

So, the farther you move past the 2 week mark, the fewer and fewer cyst are alive to get onto the filter media and make to the QT tank. Plus the media is not reintroduced to the main tank by the boiling step.

 

[Ashlar]

riiiiiiight but the trophonts can stay in the substrate for up to a month (3-28 days)..

http://www.petsforum.com/personal/trevor-jones/marineich.html

(same author.. different article)

 

[patteto]

@Ashlar wrote:

Darn it I think you might have me. :?

Guess it all comes down to the risk you want to take. I tend to think that my approach for getting pods to a mandarin in QT is better than leaving it in the main tank in this case.

If you are in the process of acquiring a mandarin and have a known Ich free tank, then the process I am suggesting will work to feed the mandarin and keep the main tank clean (this was the situation I was in when I got my mandarin.

Scott, thanks for keeping me honest and catching the things I overlooked.

 

[Ashlar]

No prob! If your main tank has ich, you could double the qt time (when the main tank has been sitting fallow for 6 weeks, you'll know it's ich free and you can start the clock on your hypo).

(Or like you said, find a known ich free tank to get chaeto from and set up a 20g separate refugium.)

 

[ToddLaCo]

@Marc wrote:

I had a bout with Ich recently and had a few fish that showed absolutely no signs of Ich for a prolonged period after the infected fish were removed.

I asked Kelly if the un-affected fish could be left in the tank during the fallow period, and she very quickly said NO!

I would personally remove all fish.