How do you control PH?

[Double M]

Hey all,

I'm still trying to figure out the best practices on a budget for maintaining water parameters and have now turned my attention to what to do to avoid/mitigate ph swings.

Here are the options that I've seen/heard of others using:

calcium reactor
kalk reactor
dripping kalkwasser
dosing kalkwasser (automated with a dosing pump and a timer)
dosing kalkwasser (automated with a dosing pump and a controller connected to a ph probe)
adding kalkwasser by hand
dosing 2 part consistently by any of the means listed above for kalkwasser
regular water changes only
...others?

I don't think that a calcium reactor is in the budget, plus, honestly I'm a bit intimidated by all the tech with the co2 and regulators and what not.

I'm not sure exactly how a kalk reactor differs from a jug full of kalk made by me and attached to a dosing pump, but honestly kalk reactor is a piece of equipment I know very little about.

I plan on ultimately buying a controller of some sort with the ultimate goal of maintaining temp (via light, heater, and fan control), lights, ATO (if necessary for redundant safety), and ph (perhaps via automated dosing of kalkwasser), but I'm very green at the "high-tech" end of the hobby...I still have an external overflow, drip my make up water from a gravity fed diy container, and add 2-part by hand...so I need as much automation advice as I can get!

Any help or thoughts on what you use for ph control or what you wish you had done for ph control before you spent all your money on e-ballasts and super-uber-reflectors would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

 

[DaveJ]

Howdy,

Actually pH control shouldn't really be the goal, the reason I say this is that if your parameters are in check your pH will fall in line under normal circumstances. Once you get the alkalinity, calcium and magnesium in balance the pH will range 8-8.3 normally. Now there are some exceptions, ie under-oxygenation (CO2 build-up), stuffy house syndrome etc. You drip kalk for two reasons, pH balance at night and to replenish ca/alk.

Of the equipment you listed, the Ca reactor is used to maintain alk/calcium (sometimes mg if you use the right media). Kalk dosers are bascially an automation of the dripping, they add nothing special or additional other than doing the work for you.

I notice that you keep SPS and LPS, these will be your bigger cal/alk consumers. In a tank your size you can probably handle parameters with a good quality salt and regular water changes, along with a kalk drip manually. That will be your most cost effective method. Next would be 2-part via a bulk product like those from BRS. They are very cost effective and with a tank your size, an initial investment in the 5G buckets will probably last you a couple of years You can do that manually or make an additional investment in dosers. The thing with the dosers is that you can find inexpensive dosing pumps like those on BRS, but they are best utilized with a controller, so if you don't already have one of those buying one kinda kills the economics unless you get one used at a great price.

My advice is stick to kalk and water changes, or 2-part manually until you decide to move into a controller, then go with the BRS pumps and use the timer on the controller to run them. If you do the 2-part, try to dose in the am and pm to keep things as steady as possible. That is the real purpose of the dosing pumps, the stability. As your corals use more and you need to put more in, that stability is important and dosing higher volumes can upset things a bit.

If pH is a problem you might also try a reverse light cycle in the sump/refuge. Run the lights on that at night and that will help minimize the peaks and valleys a bit.

Hope that helps!

 

[Ross110]

Quick follow up question to this...
DaveJ mentioned that kalk does 2 things, brings PH up (such as at night when it drops) and to 'replenish' Cal & Alk.

So my question is can just the top-off of kalk from a reactor at night be enough to maintain the levels (PH, Alk, Cal) at what are desired or is that the job of the calcium reactor?

I currently am doing 2 part Kent, and add some marine product to my top off to keep alk around 9...
I am trying to understand the functional differences between a cal reactor and kalk reactor so in a bit when I get my controller, I will know which reactor i will be adding...

 

[Saltpro]

you could also just get a dosing pump like this one http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/store/brs-2-part-doser-1-1-ml-per-minute.html

I just wanted to make it clear that you can spend alot of money to make things seemly easier. At the same time buying fancy reactors and or equipment doesnt make it fool proof or guarantee your success. Knowledge and experinece and a whole lot luck and patience goes along ways. Im not downing anyone's way of doing things. Just trying to point out all the options available. Im still learning new things all the time myself. Im glad we have forums to share the idea's.

again ph should be the least of your worries if everything else is in check.

 

[Ross110]

If i can eliminate variables to chaning water conditions such as PH, Ca, Alk by doing something like this, it would leave me more time to focus on Mg, and trying to remove nutrients from the system...at least thats how i think of it...and really trying to get corals to color up...

 

[bdare]

Just like Dave mentioned... You shouldn't dose anything to control Ph. If your alk is in the proper range then more than likely your Ph is also OK.

If your Alk is in range and your Ph is low, more than likely the cause is one of two issues.
1) You have CO2 build up in your tank. This can happen in tanks with a tight lid and no surface agitation and during the winter or summer months when your house is closed an no fresh air is coming in. Often times, a protein skimmer or opening the window will help resolve the CO2 issues.
2) Something died. The acid given off by the decaying matter will lower Ph.

When Alk is properly maintained it probably won't go too high. Here are some really useful articles that should help.

Low pH: Causes and Cures
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-09/rhf/index.htm

High pH: Causes and Cures
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-03/rhf/index.htm

 

[Ross110]

I was refering to the change in PH during the night, while its not a problem, there is a slight dip in PH that could be maintained.

 

[bdare]

@PFS_faceless wrote:

True, but a slight dip is nothing to worry about. It's quite normal and will not effect most inhabitants. Do you have a fuge? Lighting Macro algae is usually enough to control that swing.

 

[Ross110]

I do but have both and run the light on a reverse cycle but it tested it early this morning and it was still low.
if this isn't an issue that it would be a null benefit.

 

[bdare]

@PFS_faceless wrote:

How much of a swing are you talking about? What are you using to test Ph?

 

[steelcaveman]

If your Mag, CA & Alk are good, your PH should be fine.
If not, open a window.
Opening a window pulled my PH up in about 20 minutes.

 

[lawyeradam]

I was wondering what you ultimately did? I was having a similar problem with my alk/ph in my 40 gallon tank. One of the guys that's a fixture at a Plano LFS suggested making up top-off water with Kalkwasser, and rather than drip dosing it suggested using the kalk as a topoff to the tune of about 1/4 gallon ever other day. That's about what my sump evaporates off. I've been doing this for the last week and a half and so far I see nice noticible results. Zoas are growing, my brain coral is deeper and throwing off it's little tentacles, my ricordia has sprouted a second green mouth and looks like it's going to divide into 2. I'm very happy. I also bought on of those Milwaukee brand Ph Meters so that I can instant test the water. I found one on ebay for about 20 bucks. So far so good! Oh, and the Kalk, I was told to mix it up, let it settle in the bucket, and then siphon if off to a jug, leaving behind the last inch or so with any undisolved solution as that would be harmful to the corals. Then, add to the sump at night a few hours after the lights are out. Hope this helps and if anyone else agrees with this or has reservations it would be nice to hear those successes or concerns. Thx.

 

[Ocean Water]

Pickling lime. 1 to 2 teaspoon per gallon (depends on how much sps you have). I mix my pickling lime 1 teaspoon per gallon, running a 55g, and i mix it in with my top off that i do everyday/ every other day (every other day because i do weekly water change), i dont have crazy machine that does dosing or kalkreactor or whatever fancy machine. Dont have money to spend on crazy machine. but it works.
Test my water last night.
ph 7.8-8.0
calcium: 440
Alk 3.5
You cannot help that your water parameter fluctuate but you can control how much they fluxtuate.

 

[vushnick]

So if I wanted to use pickling lime to raise the calcium levels will I still need to supp for Mg since Mg is what facilitates the calcium uptake? I don't have a Mg test kit and have never tested for it, therefore, I'm curious as to how crucial is it to dose Mg if I keep up with weekly 10% water changes. I'm considering dosing the Kalkwasser calcium/mg/strontium all in one. Anyone have any opinions on the all in one versus individual 2 part supps?

 

[Ross110]

@bdare wrote:

How much of a swing are you talking about? What are you using to test Ph?"]

late reply.
it has been a while since i checked but i think it dropped from 8.3 in day time to about 7.9 or 8 in early am.