Help me understand tank automation, please.

[Double M]

Hey all,

As I continue to plan the 140, I'm confused about the use of automation. I currently have the lowest-tech system on the planet with DIY sump (connected to its refugium via a U-tube), DIY phosban reactor, DIY grav-fed ATO, DIY canopy...UGH! Anyway, I want to upgrade to the 140 without breaking the bank and I'm not sure about the most cost-effective way to dose my Bulk Reef Supply Calcium and Alk and to automate other systems.

All I know is that I don't want to dose the Alk all at once because it will cause too much of a Ph swing and I don't want to do it by hand every day (gets very tedious and creates major problems when traveling, etc). I also would like to keep the Ph as steady as possible, but don't intend to have a Kalk reactor, so I'm not sure if there are automated options to help maintain stable Ph throughout the day.

Do I need to get a controller? What do most people run with their controllers? If I get a controller can I use to manage my dosing? If so, what additional equip do I need to dose? Will a controller manage an ATO by just turning on a pump that sits in the top off water reservoir or is it better to manage ATO by float switch(es)? UGH!!! So many things to learn as I advance my hobby skills to the 21st century.

I feel like such a newbie, even though I've been keeping a mixed reef for years with my ghetto DIY system?

Please help by telling what things are frequently automated, what are the necessary components to automate them, and if you personally use those techniques, how you like/dislike them.

Thanks,

 

[Wes]

easiest and cheapest dosing is probably with a kangaroo pump, im doing this for 2 part on my frag system. easy automated solution that ive seen on several very successful systems

i would get a controller even if all you get is a basic one. besides controlling your simple on/off for lights, it can monitor tank temp and help adjust accordingly whether by fans or turning off stuff. you can get a controller to work as your ato as well but this will be in connjunction with float switches to do it right.

there are many other things you can automate, from cleaning your skimmer to feeding its just a matter of what you want. the biggest thing i would advocate besides whats listed above is some sort of automated battery back up.

 

[derek4real]

I have a ACJr. I love it. It make things so much easier for me. The only think I do for my tank is make sure the ATO bucket is always full. That is it, so easy my Girlfriend can do it.

I use to travel weekly, I got the ACJr to help with making the lights come on/off when I wanted them to. Also to watch PH when I am dosing Kalkwasser fro a reactor (used via ATO). I have my ACJr. control everything if possible (limited by DC8 outlets). It also controls my temperature fo the tank. You program the controller with parameters and program it to do X when Y happens. (EX: If Temp. > 81.5, Then MH1 Off) Just keep in mind when you write your program you need have a ON command and a OFF command. The ACJr is a great buy. It just doesnt watch Temp, it can do the same thing with PH. (EX: If PH > 8.3, Then Kalk OFF). Each Plug on the DC8 is programable. But to save plugs I try to combine things, like all my powerhead on one outlet, and all my Metal Halides on one outlet, etc.

Another option are ranco controllers for temperature control. You can also us a PH controller (not needed if your not using a Kalk Reactor or CA Reactor). Buy the time you buy all these controllers you have should just bought a ACJr. You could try the "Balling Method" which uses Dosing pumps to supplement the tank with Alk, CA, MG, and trace elements.

ACJr is just the start of automation. AC3 and some others can control your tank via your cell phone.

 

[DaveJ]

Jimm,

Automating, reliably, can get pricey. There are components you can do economically, but if you are wanting full automation it will run you some cabbage. What I would suggest is that you figure out exactly what you want to automate, then do it in stages. For example... top off, then dosing, then equipment control. You can do those independently or in conjunction with one another. It really depends on your ultimate destination....

Top off is the simplest. You can do a DYI sensor package for around $40 with a toms pump for $20, or go all the way up to a tunze osmolator that will run you $200 for everything you need.

Dosing... this can be done independently or in combination with a controller. The cheaper solutions work best with the controller like an ACIII or ACJr, you can get some great inexpensive pumps like Drews pumps and run them using the programming. Setup and dialing it in will take about a week, but once you learn how it works, how the math/calculations should be done, adjustments are really a snap. Or you can go independent, with a LMIII or Profilux unit, though those will run you around $400 total. The drew solution runs about $200, but to work best, you want to get the ACIII or ACJr.. and that will run you a few hundred as well.

Further automation, like water changes, reactors,skimmers etc can be done with an ACIII or controller similar to it, but will need individual equipment, extra probes, switches that kind of thing.

So with that said.. figure out what your ultimate goal and budget is, then break it down into individual pieces you can put in within your current budget allotment and just add/adjust as you go.

There are plenty of DYI and other methods people use, all come with some reliability or risks but many of them work well for the thing they are doing. I'd also suggest you browse through the build forum and DYI forum to find out what others have done. Some of the members have been quite creative.....

 

[derek4real]

DaveJ,

Do It Yourself (DIY), not DYI. :lol:

I saw this earlier today on RC, might work for you.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1629397

 

[bimmerzs]

@derek4real wrote:

Hey,

The way some folk's do it.... it is DYI (Do Yourself In). :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: Soooooo many folks have started to build their own controller or as I like to say...reinvent the wheel. I don't recall too many folk's that actually finished their controller or who used it long term if they did finish it. Designing your own controller is very time consuming, it may be satisfying in the end, until you figure out how little value you have put on your time. It could easily take 100+ hours from start to finish, even at min wage, you could have just went out and bought a much better product as well as a few accessories(like a DC8).

Cheers,

 

[Double M]

Thanks for all the great replies so far.

I know that I want to automate ATO, lights, heating/fans, and dosing for sure (probably in that order), but then I guess I'm unsure as to what other options might be available down the road and want to avoid the mistake of buying something that isn't expandable. So if I do decide to add a kalk reactor or a calcium reactor or ... I am not stuck with needing to buy a whole new controller or other inefficient money-wasting pitfalls.

Perhaps better questions would be:
1. What do you automate and for what purpose?
2. What do you use to achieve that automation? and
3. At what expense?

Thanks again for all your help with old newbie (or a new oldbie).

 

[bimmerzs]

@Double M wrote:

Hi,

I use an Aquacontroller III Pro as the brains of my system, I currently automate lighting, heating, cooling(both fans and a chiller), tank top-off, top-off reservoir refilling, auto water changes, Calcium reactor(ALk/Ca/MG using dolomite). One thing you should take into account when using a controller to control many aspects of your tank, is the possibility of having a single point failure. It is very important that you choose a reliably controller, but still put safeguards in place in avoid issues. I will explain how just my ATO is setup.

A solenoid is on the output of my ro/di which is feeding a 5G reservoir(holds 3.5G) which uses a magnetic reed type float switch and aKent Float Valve to limit/control water level. The reservoir is refilled automatically once every 12 hours so in case something went wrong, no more than 6 gallons would be added to my system in a 24hr period, which would have minimal to no impact on my total system volume of ~180G-200G. The system is topped off from the reservoir to the sump and it's level is controlled by another magnetic reed type float switch along with a Level-Loc auto top off unit. With this setup I have several safeguards in place both software and hardware limitations just to avoid turning my tank into a freshwater one. :lol: There are several other very good standalone ATO units out there such as the JBJ ATO and the Tunze osmolator.


Cheers,

 

[Ashlar]

@Double M wrote:

1a. What I automate: lighting, dosing, temperature control
1b. What purpose it serves: peace of mind, mainly. I monitor temperature, ph, ORP, and conductivity (analogous to salinity). I have timers set for all the lights, the doser, and the skimmer. Normal operation has the heater turning on and off to maintain temp. If the temperature rises, I respond based on how high the temperature climbs. At the first stage, I turn on a fan under the stand. At the next stage, I start turning off lights. At the high end, I turn off all the lights and the skimmer pump, send out an email, and turn on a loud alarm module. I have similar responses triggered for high / low ph (turn off the doser if the ph is too high) and high / low conductivity (check the ATO if conductivity is too high, check for a leak if the conductivity is too low.)

2. I have an AC3 Pro with two DC8s. Dosing is handled by a nautilus pump, and ATO is a homebuilt unit with 12v relay and float switches.

3. Cost? The AC3 Pro with probes and DC8 ran about $700 a couple of years ago, the doser was $199, and the ATO kit was a freebie from a raffle at Next Wave 06 or 07, but I've built one for someone else for about $50 including Tom's Aqualifter. There's also some ancillary equipment not specifically related to automation like the UPS, wireless game adapter (to get the controller online), and the cooling fan.

 

[Guest]

i am the king of cheep , i had two one doller bills in my bill fold so long that grew beards. :lol: come by the house and take a look and i will show you the podunk way to do just about anything. oh and my tanks look nice. i am upgradeing as my corals grow out so i prob. got some old rigs i can give you . call my biss line and i will hook you up

 

[DaveJ]

@Double M wrote:

1. ATO - Tunze Osomolator... used the JBJ ATO with a Toms Pump too.... both work well. Purpose is to have a large supply of water available during the day, helps evaporation, salinity stability (though on a large tank thats less of a problem). Mainly it allows you to keep a larger supply of top-off on hand so you don't have to carry water like a mule every day. I automate dosing... best thing I ever did. Allows 3-week or longer supply of 2-part. I remix-refill in about 20 minutes every 3 weeks. Tank stays at a constant Ca/Alk/Mg level and everything thrives because of it. Lights and equipment for remote monitoring while on the road or at work. Until my base wireless unit crapped out (see my sig) I was able to see the tank from a system perspective at anytime and turn lights on/off etc or see power outages. I automate temp control and temp safety as well. I have a 2 circuit heater setup, a rancor runs the heater at a set temp and the controller runs the rancor. Any heater problems, except not coming on to heat, are resolved that way due to the double security. I also have heat control on lights so if a temp problem does occur, lights and such turn off and I get a notification of a problem. Ive considered an automated water change, but decided against it for now. Its as automated as I need via plumbing. The mixing is all done in large batches and the plumbing allows a 15 minute water change routine for 50-60G in the main system. No lugging cans, water etc... just run a hose, drain the sump and refill saltwater via plumbing connection. All the lighitng and notificaiton etc are handled via an ACIII, dosing with a LMIII.

Expense... all said and done.. over 1K total for everything. Ease of maintenance, peace of mind etc... priceless.

 

[Double M]

As I continue to read (especially in tank build logs), I see many people using DJ power centers ( or whatever they are actually called) to streamline their wiring and for easier on/off control...how do those work with controllers?

If I understand correctly, you plug the items you wish to control into a contoller (or it's outlet bank-dc8, etc), so how do you use the controller and the DJ strip together?

 

[Wes]

Without modifying it you don't, typically dj's are for non controlled items