From scratch or buy a setup?

[bellapoison]

I've been reading through "Natural Reef Aquariums" and I'm about to start "The Conscientious Marine Aquarist." I think I'm almost ready to start my first saltwater tank.

I wanted your opinions on whether you found it more interesting/beneficial/easy to start your first tank from scratch (buying a bare tank, collecting equipment, cyclilng, adding livestock bit by bit) or buying someone else's setup (tank & livestock). I've seen several people selling their setups on the forum and craigslist when they're upgrading or getting out of the hobby.

In one way, it would definitely be a learning experience to start from scratch. On the other hand, it would probably be more cost-effective to buy someone else's setup.

Thoughts?

 

[Serk]

All the people selling setups and not wanting to part out are gonna kill me, but...

If you've done your homework, and can afford it, I like building my own. That way you get the RIGHT equipment for each function, and not what someone else thought was the right part...

Now, having said that, you will most likely save a lotta money buying someone else's complete setup!

So, I guess the answer is, if you see a complete setup that looks right to you, you like all, or at least most, of the details of it, go for it. Otherwise, build your own the way you think it should be done...

Throughly confused now? :lol:

 

[newtofish]

I have completely set up 2 systems and bought 1. I enjoyed the frustration of trying to find just the right piece of equipment. I will setup my next one myself also.

 

[kwl1763]

I love building my own but it's not for everyone. It's a lot of work. It's also much harder to get a good deal that way. When you buy a full setup you can get some great deals sometime. I think if it was my first system i'd buy existing and just keep learning. It really takes a couple years before you screw up enough to know what you're doing!

 

[Tag]

FYI:

I built mine from scratch.... Wanted everthing brand new, to prevent early pump failures, ect... (plus I have a warranty). Mine is a 80gal setup and I'm right at about 4 grand... and dont even have a fish yet.
IMO if you dont have to, dont buy from LFS, on average everything is double the price than online. example: I bought a maxi-jet 900 locally and it cost me over 30 dollars, I just bought another on online last night and it cost me 16 dollars.

This is just what I have been going through. (not complaining, it was my choice)
Darryl

 

[gravedigger]

I cheated and bought a turn key set-up. I paid 1200 for a 150 rr with everything including fish and coral. I got lucky and nothing died in the move. I then bought a bullet 2 skimmer followed by a chiller. If had bought all new it would have cost around 5k. Right now someone has a 150 rr for sale for 1500 it looks similar to my set-up. Knowing what I know now I would jump on it especially if I was just starting out.

I also bought a book or two on saltwater tanks prior to buying the tank. After reading the book and deceiding that I could do it. I had a full set-up in my house within two weeks.

Let us know what you do either way this is the right place to look for answers. However if twenty people respond you will most likley get twenty differnt answers :lol:

 

[blide]

Only thing I won't buy used again is a tank because I hate scratches I didn't make myself. :?

 

[NathanSE]

There's an upside to each approach.

You can save a whole ton of money when you buy someone else's setup. But if that person bought crappy equipment, you're still throwing money away. Sure, if you can get a great deal on halides and a quality skimmer, go for it, but if you're getting a deal on a crap skimmer and crap lighting and a ghetto setup, then you can lose out as you're still buying junk.

As a first time SW aquarist, buying a turnkey system also isn't a great idea always. You end up with a ton of livestock that may or may not be compatible and you may or may not know how to care for.

If you do decide to build a kit from scratch, I would advise posting it for review. You can save a lot of headaches and dollars by getting a good critique.

HTH
N

 

[David Mash]

@Tag wrote:

Hold on. $4,000.00? Can you give me a general break down on the cost?

I am in the begining stages of planning a 100g with sump and have come no where near that amount.

Here are my est for what I want to do.

100g tank***$200 from petorama
LR*********$300 from foster /smith
Oct skimmer*$250
stand/canopy*$250 for lumber/paint will be a DIY
Sump*******$ ? have not priced out arcrylic
pumps******$125-150 not sure just a guess so far
lights*******$200 for 2 175 MH
***********$150 for tek5 retro fit w/lights
pluming*****$100 for PVC/unions/ball joints ..etc

That comes to$1,600.00 Even if I low balled a few things I'm not close to 4 grand. Main reason I am asking is 1. your scaring me to think I left a whole bunch of stuff out and 2. your scaring me that I cannot afford to do this.

Thanks[/code]

 

[elchicodelgado]

Have you considered a nano? That is much cheaper to get into and you can get your feet wet with it. Also, when you decide to upgrade than you will have a good QT tank.

 

[Tag]

David,

That is give or take 100 here or a 100 there, but I am very close to 4 g's. And dont want to pull out all my reciepts, but one thing you did not list, and you can do with or without it is a chiller. I bought a 1/3 Teco locally that cost me $868.59. My thought was I live in Texas and I will always be faced with a heat issue, So I just bit the bullet. I could have gotten a smaller one but I plan to up grade my tank later, and I will already have the chiller.
The Live rock I bought locally it was 5.99 per pound x 90lbs $539+tax
Live sand from LFS was right @ about $100 for 90lbs
My sump cost me about $200
Miracle mud for my sump about $100
Chaeto for my sump $ 20
Light for my sump was about $30
Overflow about $80
Salt about $50
Test kit about $50
Water....
Not just pumps, but powerheads too
I payed $250 for my tank locally, $60 for 2 timmers, ect,ect,ect...... The little things start adding up

You can definately do it cheaper, but you need to get as much as you can here on the forum, or buy as much as you can online. I was already setup before I found this place.

I'm new to the hobby so take what I may say with a grain of salt, This is just MY adventure.....

Goto this link www.aquariacentral.com/faqs/reef/ and look at Cost Estimates .

 

[bellapoison]

@elchicodelgado wrote:

I did consider various all-in-one nanos--JBJ, Aquapod, M-Tank, Bio-Cube. My main concern with most of those (excepting the M-Tank) is heat buildup--do you find your nano gets too hot?

Also, I wanted to be sure I had a little more water volume to work with, and a little more leeway to add what I wanted.

Do you like your Cube so far?

 

[Jaguar]

I started with a little 20g tank and stand I got for $20. I originally wanted a nice new CPR HOB refug/skimmer combo (about $300) and found someone selling another 20g refugium w/stand, LR, LS, and tons of macro for $75 and went the linked tanks route instead.

I'm not sure what the price on those little cubes runs you, but you can get yourself started on a nano pretty cheap here in the for sale forums.

Personally I would either know what your buying if you buy someone else's set up front and back. Know what your going to keep and what you are going to sell. Know a rough estimate of what you can sell those items for. Then change things or tweak things: corals, fish, system parts to you own needs.

Or I would say start from scratch. You get to learn how everything works much better and have a better understanding of where you are going to go for your personal needs in the future. Do you want to try the advanced corals or fish, what types, and there mannerisams. You'll want another fish or coral then you can research if it is compatable with what you have currently.

I would say perhaps it is costing you more to buy from scratch, however for me the learning experience of it all was well worth the slightly higher cost.

Either way g'luck!

 

[grim-bob]

David,

IMO you may have lowballed a few items (pump and plumbing mainly). BUT that all depends on how complicated of a setup we are talking about. For a basic system with 2 drains and a return you may be close. But if you plan on having a closed loop or having enough unions and valves to cover any situation you are low. Without knowing specifically what your tank plans are it's hard for us to guage how accurate your numbers are, they may not be that much off after knowing the grand plan.

Something I've learned from many DIY projects in and out of the hobby is to always add a percentage on top of what you think it will be. I usually add 15% to what I am expecting and tend to fall within that. Some of that is small things you forget, others might be mistakes you made and had to redo. But you have to start with fairly solid numbers first or you could end up way over in a hurry.


Drawing the thread back on topic....

I think there are benefits to both sides. I bought a complete setup for my 1st but built my 2nd. I didn't have the 1st tank 2 months and had already started making changes.

I think in some ways it might depend on what type of person you are.

A) If you are very anal about the way things are you should probably consider building the setup yourself so you can buy what you want. This allows you the control that you feel you need and will be more rewarding. Their is a cost associated with this control you get to keep however.

B) If you are very laid back and Ok with something that works albeit maybe not the way you might have done it then buy a used setup. You should get a great deal and will usually be up and running quicker. And even if it ends up needing some minor tweaks you still saved money.

I'm definitely in the 1st category and as such have built everything on my new system except the pumps, lighting and tank (although I did have it modified). It definitely cost me more, but now I have the personal comfort of knowing every inch of every item connected to my tank. If something fails it's my fault, but I also know I put more care into it than someone else might have....

The biggest question is what will be most rewarding to you? In the end all that matters is having a hospitable system for the inhabitants, right!!!

 

[elchicodelgado]

@bellapoison wrote:

I did consider various all-in-one nanos--JBJ, Aquapod, M-Tank, Bio-Cube. My main concern with most of those (excepting the M-Tank) is heat buildup--do you find your nano gets too hot?

Also, I wanted to be sure I had a little more water volume to work with, and a little more leeway to add what I wanted.

Do you like your Cube so far?"]

Heat buildup has not been as big of an issue as I would have figured. My tank stays at a stable 83 degrees which I know is on the high end of acceptable but is very consistent. That surprised me especially since our tank is near lots of windows. We keep the shades drawn but it still is in the hottest part of our place. If it does become an issue then they do have retro chilling options that aren't very expensive.

I will admit that we feel limited at times by our space. I think a 24 in lieu of a 12 would make a world of difference. That is frustrating but I'm still happy with our choice. Plus, this hobby is expensive enough without having to spend hundreds of dollars filling empty space!

You may not have problems and everything may go smooth but the first two months were sooooo frustrating because we had a million things we tried to understand and it felt as if our tank was never perfect and we were always tinkering. The nano is soo responsive to changes that it is a little harder but you really learn about reef keeping because the results are more instant.

I know you've been trying to learn and you are doing the right thing by researching like you have. You'll do fine! Also, we couldn't find the stupid hydrometer but once you get your tank set up we've got some xenia and mushrooms waiting for you.

 

[bellapoison]

Ooh, I'm excited! I just picked up a 29-gallon tank and stand for $40 last week. So, now I'm gathering equipment and stuff to put it together. I bought a 130w PC Orbit fixture on Ebay and I bought a Remora protein skimmer from a member on here. So...it's starting to come together. Of course, it'll be another coupla months before it's ready for any kind of livestock.

Yeah, as much as it would've been great to start with a larger tank, it's just amazing how quickly expenses multiply as tanks grow larger.

 

[Gant]

@bellapoison wrote:

Bella, here is a picture of my tank. It just had its 8 week birthday, and I have the same size tank and light as you (different skimmer). It's still a work in progress, but it's coming along.

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The 29er wasn't as cheap as I thought! :? The good thing is it's pretty much full. After initial outlay for hardware, you can fill up with frags, sit back, and enjoy.

 

[Gant]

Bella,

I don't have much to add that other posters haven't said. The people that do it from scratch enjoy spending time with their tanks. Everything in my tank is a frag. I like building it up and rearranging it. It's addictive.

That said, there are some unbelievable deals out there! If you haven't noticed, reefers don't really "upgrade" so much as "add," i.e. (seahorse tank, anemone tank, prop tank, etc.). If you could find a 29-55g reef setup for a few hundred bucks, you'd get a great idea of what you like while figuring out what you want next. (And there's always next).

 

[bellapoison]

So, Gant, what all are you keeping so far? I can identify a frogspawn, xenia, and kenya tree...I'm still trying to learn to identify corals. And I'm trying to determine what all I can keep successfully.

I see some snails--do you have any fish in your tank?

 

[Gant]

@bellapoison wrote:

So, Gant, what all are you keeping so far? I can identify a frogspawn, xenia, and kenya tree...I'm still trying to learn to identify corals. And I'm trying to determine what all I can keep successfully.

I see some snails--do you have any fish in your tank?"]

Bella,

I have:
* xenia (elongata, pom-pom, and some pink/white hybrid looking stuff I fot after fragging the elongata for the fourth time)
* kenya (fragged 4-5 times in 6 weeks)
* 2 candy canes
* pulsing sinularia leather
* yellow fiji leather
* brown leather (random)
* brown polypy leather
* yellow spaghetti leather
* devil's hand
* frogspawn
* torch coral
* assorted mushrooms
* assorted zoos
* polyps (start polyps and gsp)
* ric florida
* montipora digitata
* monti cap
* some other cap-type sps coral
* acropora something

My livestock consists of numerous snails, hermit crabs, brittle star, peppermint shrimp, scotter blenny, and perc clown. I ordered a baby yellow tang, but I got a juvenile I'm selling/trading/giving away immediately.

Everything in my tank except the sand and a few inverts came from MAS members. I like frags because they're cheap, they're small (29 fills up fast), I like watching them grow, and they don't impact the natural population of the ocean. Propogated corals are also hardy. Every member can tell you how his or her tank went through stressful periods. A lot of their corals made it through. It's more resistant to disease, temperature variations, and less than optimal water quality. Plus it's pretty cool to look in your tank and know that other members contributed to your mini-reef.

Everything was in place before anything alive went in the tank. I had 35 lbs. live rock from another member and bought some live sand. It cycled immediately (there were some mushrooms and tubeworms on the rock, as well as a few hitchiking starfish that all survived). I didn't touch it for a week. Then I added xenia and kenya frags (which did well in less than perfect water). I waited another week and added a cleanup crew. Everything else went in over the last five weeks. Everything has done well despite a week of 84-85 degree temperatures when my A/C was going out. The SPS is also doing well under PC lighting. A big factor in getting to this point was not adding fish for a long time. I added a blenny two weeks ago and the clown this week. I'll put a goby in, and that will be it.

Of course, I can't deny that the most important factor with me is luck.