does live rock create nitrates

C

celebrityovernight

i have always wondered, does live rock cause nitrates? because water constantly flows through it, there is no place for anarobic bacteria to colonize therefore, liverock would act like bioballs in that it stores bacteria that only breakdown ammonia into nitrite, then nitrate. so i guess my question is, what is the difference between liverock and a synthetic type of filtration such as sponge or bioballs.
 
ah but there is anaerobic regions. Down deep in the rock there is essentially no O2. I will say the ability is limited however. Like in a bare bottem no skimmer tank you would have a hard time controlling nitrates on all but very small bioloads.
 
@celebrityovernight wrote:
i have always wondered said:
Ah but not quite so, down deep inside of porous liverock there are areas where anaerobic bacteria thrive. That is what makes liverock able to process nitrates. Exactly a good reason to keep at least one urchin, to keep the pores open in the liverock and not let them get covered over with coraline algae.
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Live rock does produce nitrates just as a sponge or bioball would, but it also produces nitrogen gas from those nitrates. There are in fact anaerobic areas within live rock that host the denitrification bacteria. Water does not constantly flow through live rock except in certain places, and the areas deep within the rock take time for water to get to, hence the depleted oxygen levels at those sites, and the development of anaerobic bacteria.
 
so in terms of people saying that a lot of liverock would be healthy for a system, that would not necessarily be true because the amount of nitrates it produces; and i imagine like you said keith, the anearobic zones are too minimal to have any drastic affect on conversion of nitrates into harmless nitrogen gas. so therefore liverock would be equivalent to base rock that has been seeded with bacteria, and that investing in a good skimmer is better than in high quality rock.


ps: (when i say quality, i'm speaking in terms of functional reasons, not aesthetic)
 
I wouldn't say they are minimal. They are significant, just not enough by themself to handle a huge lod. Hence the need for skimmers.

More is better, rock doesn't just create nitrates. Ammonia comes from living things in the tank (mainly fish waste) The more of it you have the more nitrfying and really dentrifying (since it is the way more limiting since ther ae plenty of aerobic regions in the tank)

So what that means is you have a set level of input, the more dentrifying area you have (aka rock) the more you are able to handle the load. So more rock means more ability to handle bioload. Now there are lots of other factors involved but this is a good simplification.
 
so would a person be able to achieve the same amount of success if he were to use baserock and culture the bacteria w/ a dead shrimp? also, how long would it take for the anaerobic regions to develope? i've read somewhere where it states that anearobic regions do not develope until a couple months. the reason i ask this i becuase i know that the majority of lfs have their lr shipped dry and therefore, wouldn't that expose the anaerobic bacteria to air? so besides for it looking better than base rock (at least at first) live does not really have many benefits over baserock in the long run except that it comes w/ micro fauna and plantas that some people desire.

btw thanks guys, this has really been informative :)
 
Well I see this has been discussed to death while I myself was distracted with work but here is my input anyway.

Live rock is much denser and is usually submerged all the time so although it does contribute to processing waste it is not as efficient at it as the other media you mentioned. Also if the rock pieces are large enough (8" or more is the figure I recall) it can also create antitoxic zones where anaerobic bacteria grows that converts the nitrate to nitrogen gas much like a DSB. Now this is all from memory but if memory serves me correct that is why it is not like the bio-ball or sponge filters. Bio ball are alternately exposed to air and then wet and so on are super efficient at converting through the first steps and producing Nitrate. Sponge filters tend to trap detris and allow it pile up and then rot. Ideally we have critters in/on our live rock that does not allow that to happen.

Well that is my 2 cents, again from memory so hopefully someone else will chime in and confirm or correct.
 
I would only possibly add that surface area of the LR should also have a bearing for the cultivation of bacteria. In our 215, we used base rock from Tampa Bay Saltwater quarried from an old sea bed near Miami. This base rock is the most porous I've ever seen. There are "mini tunnels" througout the rock. I have a pistol shrimp that gave up burrowing and uses the rock exclusively. More surface area, more area for bacteria to cultivate.
 
i had a bad nitrate problems for years until Q(ex boyfriend) came in and took my reef over. he advocated having a thick sandbed, then he positioned several powerheads right up against the rock all pointed in different directions..4 along the base in opposing directions and some all over the reef, to get max flow through the rock. My nitrates dropped to next to nothing in a few days...along with a couple of good water changes..and the levels havent come back up.
Ive had my rock a long time and it was pretty nasty, i never blew it out and I didnt ever do the WC's like I should have been, and it was still possible to clean it up.
 
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