Dino/Algae is out of control...

G

GraviT

Premium Member
After several months of trying to battle the dinoflagellate infestation (now there's hair algae popping up too!?!?) in my system, I've decided that a new plan of attack is necessary. Here's the idea:

Start by removing about 95% of the rock from the tank and refugium, scrub it and toss it into a 30 gal barrel to cook for about 6 weeks. I would leave any pieces with corals that couldn't be easily removed and a bit of rock for the fish to hide and sleep.

At week 5, transfer water, some sand and all livestock to my old 55 gal. (I need some sand to keep the cucumbers from kicking the bucket).

Drain the current system, and toss the sand. When empty, clean the tank, sump, skimmer, pumps and all plumbing with vinegar and/or muriatic acid. The idea is to get things clean again and hopefully kill any trace of the nasties. Maybe..just maybe, I'll drill the tank at this point. I have the bits, but lost the nerve last time around.

Once everything is nice and dry, add new sand (DSB in the 'fuge), refill the system with fresh saltwater and add the rocks that have been cooking in the garage (thinking of drilling the rocks and using acrylic rods to aquascape this time). Toss in a deli shrimp and a couple cups of sand from healthy systems and cycle the beast.

When the system has cycled, add the livestock, and cook any rock that didn't get done the first time around.

Comments, suggestions? I hate to do this, but I think things will be better in the long run. :roll:
 
that seems extream and may not even take care of the issues you are having. IMHO, I suspect it will even make it start going through the algea cycles again.

The Dyno's are probably using up silicates that may be replaced with fresh sandbeds. Once the silicates go and the dynos die off the hair algeas take over for a bit. I'd work on cleanup crews or other livestock that goes after the growths. (and of course the standard other items like flow, lighting and excess nutrition)

It does sound like you want to do some other things to the system that would be benificial and may be worth it for the upgrades but to go through all that, and posible just start the whole dyno/algea cycle again seems excessive.
 
Kevin,

I'm sorry that these things have come back....

My advice is to dump your rock completely. When I had my rio pump meltdown a couple years back, I cooked my rock for 5-6 months (without light), at one point actually cooking the rock, the temp sensor in the can fell out and brought the temp up to well over 100 overnight. Once I got the rock back in the tank etc, everything was fine for a few months, then I started getting some of that ugly brown plating/encrusting algae growth again etc. Its not as bad as it was previously, but it did survive. I would HATE to see you go through it again.
 
All good points. However, with the holidays and such, it's going to be a while before I can convince the "financial advisor" to let me throw out all of the LR and buy fresh. The longer I look at this mess, the more I want to just throw in the towel. At least this way, I would be trying something proactive and may have a chance at knocking the stuff out.

psteeleb, you might be thinking of diatoms. I haven't read anything that links dinoflagellates to high levels of silicate (not to say the info isn't out there, I just haven't found it..yet :D). My plague was likely introduced in the gut of some shellfish that I used to make Pappone earlier this year. Unfortunately, nothing I've done so far has been effective in killing it off completely. My bulbs are all less than 6 months old and there is > 3,000 gph turnover in the 120 gallon display, not including the return.

Also, I'm not sure it's actually hair algae as most of it lacks coloration, is rather easy to remove with a turkey baster and my yellow tang who seems to really love hair algae won't touch it.. Perhaps it's a colonial form of the dinos.

:?:
 
I think you should round up some DFWMAS members for a Reef Strike and let them assist you in giving the tank a massive overhaul / cleaning. After pizza, beer, and some hours of working together, it'll look much better.

No more pappone in your tank for a while, as that might be fueling the situation. And a clean up crew will likely perish once they come in contact with the dinos - snails don't do well with dinos - and as they die, they add to the tank issues.

Siphon, scrub, and clean all equipment and glass, and clean the skimmer & riser neck daily. Light feedings, shorter lighting periods, fresh carbon every 48 hours... that's what I would do.

Alternately.... Breaking down the tank as you've described seems like a plan, but I'd almost move the livestock to the 55g to be a holding tank, move the lights over that, and leave the system up. Wrap it in blanket to block any light, and run the skimmer to pull out the nasties. Then after all those weeks, the tank should be in better shape, and you could move the livestock back.
 
@Marc wrote:
I think you should round up some DFWMAS members for a Reef Strike and let them assist you in giving the tank a massive overhaul / cleaning. After pizza said:
Hrmm...DFWMAS tank assault team sounds interesting :wink: Things always seem better after pizza and beer!

I haven't touched the Pappone since I noticed the initial dusting of this crud..in fact, I threw it away and vowed never to try it again.

As for the ongoing tasks, I'm pretty much doing that already. I am cleaning the skimmer daily, light feedings every other evening, only 4 1/2 hours of lighting a day and changing carbon once a week. What really did me in was after the last 3 day lights out, the stuff came back even stronger. :evil:

I kinda like the idea of leaving the system running, but thought it would be better to just eliminate the chance of it surviving in the water column somehow and I don't have a skimmer large enough to support the 55 while my G4+ is clearing the 120.
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I have an ASM G-3 you could run on the 55g if you want to borrow it.
 
@GraviT wrote:
psteeleb said:
i was thining of diatoms - sorry, my bad :oops:

I like Marcs idea on an assalt team. set up a assebly line with soem buckets or bins, using some water from a water change ..
anyone use a pressure washer to remove the stuff? of course, it would be fresh water for a few minutes but shouldnt hurt the micro fauna in the rock to much... just an idea
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@psteeleb wrote:
i was thining of diatoms - sorry said:
No biggie! For those curious, here's a couple pics of exactly what I'm dealing with here.

The brown coloring is easily removed with a bit of water pressure, leaving behind the rest of the carp. Most of the tank looks this way..it's a real eyesore. :sad: The colors aren't quite this dark...my camera needs to be tweaked, but I just haven't felt like taking the time since the tank isn't much to look at anymore.
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A few teaspoons of bleach should lighten those up nicely.


















just kidding!
 
Dinos are one of the worst things you could encounter in a reef. I've been battling them for months. It's so frustrating.

They've subsided but still present when I run my lights for consecutive days without blackouts.

Things I've done to reduce outbreaks:
- Got rid of a large portion of my bioload (5 large tangs!)
- Shortened my MH photoperiod to 5 hours (don't even run VHO's any more because I think the bulbs are around 16 months old and I don't want to take the chance of the spectrum shifting and causing any outbreaks)
- Incorporated a 2 day blackout avery 4-5 days (my reef never gets 7 consecutive days of light any more :sad: )
- Feed every other day a very minimal amount (my poor fish)
- Incorporated a refugium with a sand bed
- Run RowaPhos 24/7
- Aggresive water changes every other week (I scrub the rock with a toothbrush, scrape then overflows and glass, and then use a powerhead to blow detritus out so I can siphon all the crap out)
- Run fresh carbon constantly

I'm out of ideas. Although it's not as bad as it used to be, it's still apparent when I run the lights for a few days in a row and then I have to black out the tank. That's maybe one reason why my frags are still frags after a year and a half.

Anyone got any other ideas? I'll be following this thread for more ideas.

FYI, I wouldn't wish this stuff on my worst enemy.
 
I had a horrid infestation that lasted nearly a year. Brad Ward gave me a very good regimen - after I had tried everything else - including measures discussed above (from darkness to water changes).

First - no water changes...just increases nutrient levels of the stuff the dino likes. I siphoned out the dino into a net, replaced the water back into the tank. Then, I increased my dKH to 11-12. Then, I added a teaspoon of kalk dissolved into a pint of RO every day for a couple of weeks.

Done...gone...dead...no more dino!
 
@Misty wrote:
I had a horrid infestation that lasted nearly a year. Brad Ward gave me a very good regimen - after I had tried everything else - including measures discussed above (from darkness to water changes). First - no water changes...just increases nutrient levels of the stuff the dino likes. I siphoned out the dino into a net said:
I tried that for a while, but it tends to cause my pumps to seize. When I came home one day and found that my return hadn't been running for several hours, I stopped.
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Get a new pump then. Crank the dKH up to at least 10.

Run your mg high also around 1400-1500

I think your cooking rock plan sounds acceptable.

What kind of rock is it? Maybe it's leaching phosphate? Any dead base rock used or homade rock or tampa bay rock?
 
@kwl1763 wrote:
Get a new pump then. Crank the dKH up to at least 10. Run your mg high also around 1400-1500 I think your cooking rock plan sounds acceptable. What kind of rock is it? Maybe it's leaching phosphate? Any dead base rock used or homade rock or tampa bay rock? said:
I normally keep my dHK up around 11, that's not the issue. The problem is that using a kak slurry causes calcium deposits on just about everything that generates heat. The idea is to keep pH up around 8.4 to 8.5.

The rock is all Fiji..no home made or tampa.
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Okay, so, I get to wear the dunce hat for a bit. I checked and my dKH was down around 7.5 so I've started with the daily tsp of kalk in a pint of water routine. Last time, I was dosing 1 tsp. in a cup of RO/DI several times a day until the pH hit 8.5. I'll take it a bit more casually this time around. I drip kalkwasser 24x7, so I was pretty surprised to see it so low...guess those pesky colored sticks are sucking the stuff right out of the water! :lol:

I also found out that my PO4 is up around 1.0, so I'm putting GFO back in the Phosban reactor for a while (thanks again DennisF!). This is my last shot at killing this crud by non-drastic means before I tear this beast down! :twisted:
 
Ya get that phosphate out for sure! You may nee to change the phosban frequently but make sure it reads zero on the test kit!

Also run your alk real high like 12 or so. test daily for a while. I bet if you do the followign then you'll see dramatic improvement within a couple weeks.

Glad it looks like an identifiable cause!
 
Next question...now that I've got some GFO for the reactor, how much do you guys usually run? The instructions state that it should be a minimum of 250 ml, which is conveniently the smallest size container of Phosban available. :roll: I got some bulk from a fellow club member and would like to make it last as long as possible.
 
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