Corals stressed out

S

Slovak

Any ideas from the DFWMAS braintrust would be appreciated to help me solve this problem, whatever it is.

My tank has been set up for some time now. It is a 72 gal with a 15 gal sump, ASM G3 skimmer. In the last month, something has been going on with my tank, and in the last week, things are visibly stressed and getting worse. I can't put my finger on the cause. Corals just don't look right.

Xenia used to grow like a weed, now it's shriveled away. The GSP hasn't opened up its polyps for several days. Encrusting gorgonia hasn't opened up for over a week Devil's hand has the polyps out, but they don't look right. The whole coral doesn't open up as much. The large galaxia rock started retracting polyps from the bottom side and most likely dying off. Green zoos are either closed or visibly stressed/beginning to melt off. Montipora digitata has white soft caps attached to the tips.

My fish include: yellow tang, 2 firefish, 3 green chromis, 2 true percs, and a lawnmower blenny. I also have a tube anemone (which went through a hiding episode about 3-4 weeks ago).

The params are:
Temp: 79-81
Salinity: 1.024
pH: 8.3-8.4
Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate, Phosphates: 0
dKH: 12.8
Calcium: 380

I'm including pictures of my corals for reference.
 
Maybe lower the alk some. Definitly run carbon and do some massive water changing. This will fix most anything!
 
As stated you may want to lower you Alk and raise the Ca, check the Magnesium levels as well, you want to make sure your water chemistry is balanced. I would do as Keith suggested and use several large water changes to bring everything in line, then monitor the Ca/Alk/Mg levels to help determine if levels can be controlled via wc's, or if dosing is required. HTH
**edit** Not sure if you are using a refractometer but I would also verify it is properly calibrated and giving you the correct salinity reading.

Cheers!
 
@kwl1763 wrote:
Maybe lower the alk some. Definitly run carbon and do some massive water changing. This will fix most anything! said:
I agree with Keith. Run some carbon and give that a chance before you take more drastic measures.
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I am using a refractometer, and I had a local member verify the salinity with another refractometer last night.

I started running carbon last night. Mixing water already, will do a change this evening.

Is there a Salifert kit for copper? It'd be worth checking for sure. Is there anyone with a kit I could use?

I do have Mg flakes from a group buy, but I've never dosed it since I had now way of measuring it. Looking for a test kit...

Thanks for everyone's thoughts, I'll keep you posted.

Peter...
 
@Slovak wrote:
I am using a refractometer said:
If the inverts are still living it's probably not copper but I would still test for peace of mind if nothing else, the cheaper copper test kit's will work for this and I would test sooner rather than later. I would also run test on the wc water to see where the PH/Alk/Ca/Mg levels were at just for informational purposes since salt brands yield different results on Alk/Ca/Mg levels. You can always get your lfs to test for both copper and mg for you. Good luck getting everything going in the right direction, and make sure those wc's are large (40%-50%) and as also mentioned, you should suspend any dosing. Once your tank is baselined(all levels at NSW) then monitor and adjust if necessary. JMO

Cheers!
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I would focus on the alk by doing a water change until you drop the dkh between 10 and 11. Must salt bucket has a dkh of 8.2.. Then, I would start dripping Mg into the tank until you get it up to 1400. From there, I would start dripping in kalk to raise pH and add calcium.

Take is slow when doing a water change.
 
@tnn1567 wrote:
I would focus on the alk by doing a water change until you drop the dkh between 10 and 11. Must salt bucket has a dkh of 8.2.. Then said:
Don't use kalk!! Why would you lower the alk and then raise it with kalk?

Second he has no idea what the magnesium is so no reason to add until you know. Don't add until you test. If it tests under 1200 then add a Mg additive to get it to around 1300-1400

Third. Forget pH. Trying to adjust it affects other things. If you just keep those other things in check the pH will follow.

Fourth. Get your calcium up to at least 400. do this with a calcium additive not kalk as kalk will raise your alk also.


Fifth. I would be pretty aggressive with the water changes. None of your parameters are so off that new water would cause shock. I would do like 30% or more every couple days for a couple weeks and then eveything should be fine. Let us know how it goes.
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It's up to you what you want to do. In my experiences, removing water from the tank will take away ammonia, nitrate, Mg, Calcium, pH, and Alk.

Keep in mind, when you add new water to your tank, the city should be output a pH of 7.2 to 7.4. If you are using your color test kit for pH, it's usually off by .2. Check it out :D

Therefore, you should do your water change which will take out the higher concentration of Alk. Then add Mg to help raise your calcium. Then start dripping kalk to stablized your alk. Dripping kalk does not raise your alk fast. You will need to add dkh buffer if you want to boost it up fast.

Don't just focus on one thing otherwise, you will have to also deal with the other chemical components when something else goes wrong. Kalk is the way to go to stablized Alk, pH, Ca, and it also help remove phosphate through the skimmer.

Forgot to add this, just seeing your Ca level being 380, I multiple that by 3 which your Mg may be around 1,140.
 
It doesn't matter what the pH of your RODI water is (Testers generally aren't accurate on RODI water anyway, do a search on the RC chemistry forum for all you would ever want to know about it). When mixed with salt and aged for at least a few hours it will come out to a stable pH in the low 8s.

Water changes only lower those things you mention if the salt you mix up is lower in concentration then in the tank. Your ammonia and Nitrates should hopefully be zero anyway, if not changes will definitely help lower. The salt probably has an alk around 8-9 so in your case it would lower (a good thing). The salt probably has calcium around 400-425 so in your case would raise (again a good thing) and Mg around 1200 which who knows where yours is. pH again it depends where your tank is at and what your salt mixes up at. Generally speaking there should be very little difference between your tank and the saltwater your changing with a water change. Water changes don't only lower things. They get the back closer to natural sea water levels which is the whole point.

Magnesium won't help raise calcium. It keeps calcium carbonate from precipitating so you can keep proper balanced levels. If your Mg is low then you can add and add and add and stuff just precipitates on rocks, heaters, or at worse a snowstorm (precipitation in the water column)occurs. Again we don't even know that your MG is low so this is academic at this point.

Kalk, Depending on the amount, maintains or raises both your alkalinity and calcium in a balanced way and yes the pH of saturated kalk is around 12 so it raises pH in a small way. It also has been show to bind with phosphate which can be a good thing! Once you have everything in check this is approriate but you can't adjust just alk with kalk nor will it stablize anything. It should be used when things are balanced and stable (Alk and Calcium in balance). For adjusting alk you should use either baked baking soda or a buffer, for calcium use a calcium supplement. When balanced and at proper levels then kalk would be appropriate.
 
I got my water tested by a LFS, and also bought a Salifert Mg test kit.

Their measures of my parameters were pretty much in-line, except Ca. I went home and re-tested again for the fourth time in two days. My Ca level was at 200. My Mg about 1000.

I performed a 20gal water change. The newly mixed water with Kent salt was at 9.8 dKH, Ca 380, Mg 1280.

I've also started adding Ca and Mg. Will keep everyone posted.

Peter...
 
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