closed loop question

[bdare]

It's really a matter of personal preference weather you want to have one or not. Some people love em others... not so much.

If you want to do one you'll need to plan it out VERY well before you drill any holes. You may need 1 or 2 intakes depending on the size of your pump. You don't really want 2500 gph going through 1 bulkhead. Any creature nearby would more than likely get sucked in.

The returns also can be tricky. Where do you want them? On the bottom pointing towards the corals? In the back blowing through the rocks? Over the edge?

Closed loops can be useful, but you need to plan them out REALLY well for them to be effective.

Here's a picture of mine on a 40B:

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My return is just split by an OM Squirt 2 way. Each side has 2 outputs.

Good luck!

 

[melev]

If you want to make the tank look like swiss cheese, now's the time right? :lol:

I prefer to drill the holes up high (4" beneath the surface), so if anything bad happens (bulkhead leaks, plumbing leaks, someone kicks the pump, etc), only the top 4" of water in the tank will drain out and my livestock will be safe.

Most people drill one hole out and 2, 3, or 4 holes going back in. Even just one "out" hole will suffice, like you see above. The closed loop plumbing going back to the tank can be feed over the back wall and into the system with some PVC & locline.

 

[melev]

@acat1976 wrote:

Yes, you could put a fitting on the outlet of the SCWD to create two outputs per side. You'd definitely want to buy the new large version SCWD, which run $80 or $90. Check with Pete (psteeleb) as he has one.

No, the input of the closed loop needs to be in the tank, not the overflow. Theoretically, it is possible to suck the water right out of the overflow under the right conditions, pumping tons of bubbles into the tank. What would have to happen is the water level drops too low in the overflow for whatever reason.

You need to be able to access the intake screen (where the water enters the closed loop), so you can clean it off periodically.

A closed loop only needs to be primed if it is HOB. If it is a drilled application, it gets the water automatically.

 

[bdare]

@acat1976 wrote:

Both outputs do have equal flow. I guess it's just one of those fluid dynamic things. The pump puts pressure in the pipe and that pressure is equally distributed to the outputs. I guess it's kind of like a lawn sprinkler system...

I was worried about suction because I've never had a closed loop before. I used a 1.5" bulkhead. Then there's a 1.5" Elbow (Street El) with a reducer which brings it down to 1" which is the size of my pump's intake. The pump puts out 1100 gph which is good for my 40B and there is virtually no suction on the screen!

Yes, the Union ball valves are so I can remove the pump if I need to for cleaning etc. I suppose if I needed to I could throttle the pump down, but it's realy not necessary.

The glue is just standard PVC glue. I used the purple PVC cleaner first. It helps bond the pipe a little easier. I picked them both up from Lowes.

With regards to powerheads... I think it depends on what kind you use. They have come a long way in the past few years with the advent of the "wide flow" output pumps. Something like a Vortech, Tunze, or Korilia (most to least expensive) will give you the flow you want.

Here's a picture of the front:

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This is before it was all hooked up, but I think you get the idea....

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Here you can see the outputs. The 2 in the center on either side of the overflow box are the returns from the sump.

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[bdare]

1200 gph on a 100 wouldn't be near enough. I'd think you'd want closer to 3-5000 gph. 5 on the high end, but definitely nothing less than 3000 gph.

By suction I mean... you have a hole in your tank that is sucking water into a pump. If that water is sucking water out of your tank too fast creatures could get stuck to the screen and die.

For larger tanks with closed loops sometimes people will install 2 bulkhead for the drain and have them meet up with a single line that runs to the intake of the Closed Loop pump.

Hope that helps...

Ben

 

[chrisT]

If I had it to do over again I would save the electricity and time plumbing it and get a vortech.

 

[bdare]

@chrisT wrote:

There is definitely some truth to that... In my opinion CLs are better suited for smaller tanks. To be honest there were 2 main reasons I went with the CL vs. pumps...

1) I really didn't know what I would use for a wave making device (alternating current) with powerheads that wasn't SUPER expensive.

2) I really didn't want all the powerheads in the tank.

With larger tanks I think you can hide the powerheads better. Wavemakers for larger tanks are still pretty spendy, but they are out there. I also belive the flow you'd get from Tunze, Vortech or Korilias would be better than from a CL.

 

[timthetoolman]

@chrisT wrote:

Chris do you really not see a benefit from the OM?
My tank is long but I have both the OM on a Snapper as a return and a Vortech on each end. I'm just putting water in it so I'm not sure how it will turn out.

 

[chrisT]

@timthetoolman wrote:

Chris do you really not see a benefit from the OM?
My tank is long but I have both the OM on a Snapper as a return and a Vortech on each end. I'm just putting water in it so I'm not sure how it will turn out."]

Dont get me wrong. The Dart and OM combination moves the whole water colum in my 120. I wish I wouldnt have drilled holes in the sides for the clsoed loop. If I ever wanted to upgrade this tank is shot. Then we can talk about the 160w the Dart pulls compared to a pair of Vortechs. Then even though my OM is centerd over my sump its still a mess to take apart and clean. The closed loop has to be well thought out with ball valves to shut off the water from the tank. Its also a mess to disconnect and clean the Dart. I would rather just pull a powerhead off the glass. Tim I think your on the right track using the vortech in combination with the return pump. We have to use a return pump, like you I also have a Snapper returning water to the tank.

 

[timthetoolman]

Chris, I see what you mean about the holes. After watching mine, it looks like there isn't enough flow but the amount of water that goes through my sump :shock: . I'll have to look at it again when I get the salt in it.

Acat, I use the OM as a return device not as a true closed loop so I have the option to discontinue it's use. Maybe that would work for you?

 

[melev]

Yep. http://www.melevsreef.com/review_vortech.html

 

[Wes]

@acat1976 wrote:

i was in the same boat, and started out on the closed loop path, but after messing with it the closed loop just did not work for me and i bought another vortech

 

[BigJay]

If you can wait, the Koralia Magnums are coming out soon. Supposedly they will have flow comparable to a vortech (3500+ GPH).

I'm hoping that they can be used on a wave controller like a Neptune, and that the price is reasonable.

I'm running two vortechs currently, but would love to have another option for a second tank that I'm currently considering.

 

[Darby]

I know for sure that a wave controller would be useless with the Koralia I ahve, as the propeller isn't attached to the shaft. Seems to me that there is a loss in potential flow because of that. So, when it starts and stops the prop slides up and down the shaft until it settles. That was a bummer to discover.

 

[bdare]

@Darby wrote:

I've read there is a mod that can be done to fix this! Some people take a small piece of airline tubing and put it on the shaft to keep it from sliding. Apparently this fixes the problem.

Ben

 

[BigJay]

@Darby wrote:

Pete (psteeleb) has a solution to that using some flexible airline tubing. His Korallias are working great on his wave maker. I think the tubing has to be replaced every few months, about the same time you'd clean your powerheads anyways.

We'll have to wait and see how the magnum's are built, but I think you're right. It will likely be the same.

 

[Darby]

Ah, I hate forgotten about that solution, thanks for reminding me Jay.